Getting backed off at the locals

[klove]

In the last couple months I got backed off at two local NA casinos I've been frequenting for years. Ive been using a players card never booked any large wins. I guess I've been playing a little loose with hardly any camo because I've read on here in the past that places dont bother you much as long as the spreads arent big and Ive been mostly playing red chips. Truth be told these Indian casinos sweat the money more than Vegas and Reno (more on that in a bit). Its funny these games they offer aren't even that good, mediocre penetration and bad rules etc but I just like to play and practice on my game. The backoffs are friendly but a bit extreme between the two. At one casino I am banned from ever playing any table games again and the other will still let me play but limited me to a 2x spread.

In the latest backoff I had been up all night and was stuck a little so I went to their "high stakes" which was really only $15-300 limits. Also the ploppie next to me was on a heater and ran up her stack to almost 3k. Looking back I did all the wrong things. I sat out a few times when the count got bad, I stayed too many shoes and I was up around $750 at one point and went to a 10-1 spread and lost some back. I kept a conversation with the pit boss most of the time as this was the only table going and never sensed any heat nor saw him on the phone. The heat came in the form of two casino managers that gave me the tap and told me Im counting cards and explained my new spread I was to be confined to in the future. I never encountered any heat using bigger spreads in their main pit but the moment I walked into high stakes it was over.

So earlier this month I went to Vegas than onto Reno. Didn't find many playable games in Vegas for my bankroll but in Reno lots of low limit tables and single and double deck pitch. Again I practiced bad camo as I camped out at tables way to long, used some ridiculous spreads 30-1 double deck...15-1 single deck with no heat at all at GSR and the Mill. I did finally run into one old time dealer that knew what I was up to and immediately exited after a couple shoes with him. He made references to Beat the Dealer and also commented on how aggressive I was playing. The final hand before exit I went from one hand of $10 to two hands of $125 and held AA and 13 and he had Ace up and TC was +6 so I insured and was successful and left the game. But I returned a few hours later and went back to my game. I really expected to be backed off at some point given it was Reno and single and double deck but never was bothered.

Side story about the Cal Neva downtown I walked into that dive sat down at a $5 SD table and bought in for $300 immediately I caught the attention of the pit critter. I started out at some $5 bets started spreading and I could see the sweat start to come off this guy. Within a half hour I was up a couple hundred and then I got even crazier with the spread and went from one hand at $5 to 2 at $100 won the bets and colored up 500 extra and took off. He was hawking that game nearly every hand it was funny watching him look so discomforted with every big bet I won. Still NO backoff just a lot of heat.

So what gives why do these Indians sweat the games so bad and I can go to Reno and spread big til the cows come home.

[Jabberwocky]

In the last couple months I got backed off at two local NA casinos I've been frequenting for years. Ive been using a players card never booked any large wins. I guess I've been playing a little loose with hardly any camo because I've read on here in the past that places dont bother you much as long as the spreads arent big and Ive been mostly playing red chips. Truth be told these Indian casinos sweat the money more than Vegas and Reno (more on that in a bit). Its funny these games they offer aren't even that good, mediocre penetration and bad rules etc but I just like to play and practice on my game. The backoffs are friendly but a bit extreme between the two. At one casino I am banned from ever playing any table games again and the other will still let me play but limited me to a 2x spread.

In the latest backoff I had been up all night and was stuck a little so I went to their "high stakes" which was really only $15-300 limits. Also the ploppie next to me was on a heater and ran up her stack to almost 3k. Looking back I did all the wrong things. I sat out a few times when the count got bad, I stayed too many shoes and I was up around $750 at one point and went to a 10-1 spread and lost some back. I kept a conversation with the pit boss most of the time as this was the only table going and never sensed any heat nor saw him on the phone. The heat came in the form of two casino managers that gave me the tap and told me Im counting cards and explained my new spread I was to be confined to in the future. I never encountered any heat using bigger spreads in their main pit but the moment I walked into high stakes it was over.

So earlier this month I went to Vegas than onto Reno. Didn't find many playable games in Vegas for my bankroll but in Reno lots of low limit tables and single and double deck pitch. Again I practiced bad camo as I camped out at tables way to long, used some ridiculous spreads 30-1 double deck...15-1 single deck with no heat at all at GSR and the Mill. I did finally run into one old time dealer that knew what I was up to and immediately exited after a couple shoes with him. He made references to Beat the Dealer and also commented on how aggressive I was playing. The final hand before exit I went from one hand of $10 to two hands of $125 and held AA and 13 and he had Ace up and TC was +6 so I insured and was successful and left the game. But I returned a few hours later and went back to my game. I really expected to be backed off at some point given it was Reno and single and double deck but never was bothered.

Side story about the Cal Neva downtown I walked into that dive sat down at a $5 SD table and bought in for $300 immediately I caught the attention of the pit critter. I started out at some $5 bets started spreading and I could see the sweat start to come off this guy. Within a half hour I was up a couple hundred and then I got even crazier with the spread and went from one hand at $5 to 2 at $100 won the bets and colored up 500 extra and took off. He was hawking that game nearly every hand it was funny watching him look so discomforted with every big bet I won. Still NO backoff just a lot of heat.

So what gives why do these Indians sweat the games so bad and I can go to Reno and spread big til the cows come home.

Spread big in the midst of cow? I see a rude awakening in your future.

[LVBear584]

Reno is reasonably tolerant for the tiny stakes you are playing, and is safer than Indian casinos. You will likely do OK until you move up in stakes without learning the subtleties of Reno play -- or rub the tiny stakes in their noses -- at which time the backoffs will begin and quickly multiply like cockroaches. Expect most to be polite or at least civilized, with the possible exception of the often-scary Eldorado. But even at the Eldorado, I think civility has been emphasized since the crazed security guard Stefan Johnson killed a patron in late 2013.

Be careful with double deck in Reno. No Reno store uses a shuffle card on double deck, so you have to be extra vigilant to detect and avoid non-blatant pref shuffling.

[Jabberwocky]

[QUOTE=LVBear584;164079] No Reno store uses a shuffle card on double deck, so you have to be extra vigilant to detect and avoid non-blatant pref shuffle.

I never play pitch games without shuffle card. Just my personal policy.

[Dieter]

So what gives why do these Indians sweat the games so bad and I can go to Reno and spread big til the cows come home.

When $300 is the max bet in "high stakes", it's fairly obvious they're sweating the money.

Every house has a different tolerance level. Some of it can be inferred from the table limits, some of it can be inferred from the crew attitudes. Once in a great while, a toke or two can help.

[What me worry]

I played in a very small Indian casino in Iowa. I never gave them any black action that night so I didn't feel any heat on the blackjack table but over at the craps table I was setting the dice and I thought the bossman was going to have a coronary over setting the dice and not hitting the back wall.

[Three]

but over at the craps table I was setting the dice and I thought the bossman was going to have a coronary over setting the dice and not hitting the back wall.

HeeHeeHee. Throw the dice off the table a few times "trying" to hit the back wall. It might not work with your throw but mine got high enough and landed close enough to the wall that it looked reasonable. It isn't my fault if the dice don't bounce much or sometimes at all. Then again I didn't do all that practicing for nothing.

[Bodarc]

So you have mastered an advantage throwing the dice Tthree?

[21forme]

So you have mastered an advantage throwing the dice Tthree?

It requires a multi-level dice count

[Three]

So you have mastered an advantage throwing the dice Tthree?

There was a time when it was my go to AP move. I am just a random roller now even though I set the dice on the rare times I play. It takes lots of practice and once the landing surface was not an industry standard and varied by were you play I felt the advantage became uncertain. If the dice don't do the same thing from craps table to craps table only a fool would be confident about their advantage. I know of a few places that have landing surfaces I like but I am doing too well with other things to put in the dozens of hours of practice and record keeping a week to chase an uncertain advantage.

[Bodarc]

What kind of landing surfaces are the best?

[Three]

What kind of landing surfaces are the best?

Surfaces vary by what is under the felt. When I stopped they seemed to have changed the surface between every trip. I like a firm surface with good board to dice kind of bounce. These have a small very thin cloth or foam padding underneath. If it is too wood to dice the dice bounce too much. They also had all kind of surfaces that had varying degrees of elastic bounce without the wood to dice ind of thing. These were usually just in the center of the end of the table, They could be avoided. The most bizarre surface was what I called the grasshopper surface. The bounce would seem totally random and almost fully elastic. I would throw a high arc and they would land a couple inches from the end and bounce back toward me most of the time go off the table and hit the stickman or boxman or sometimes over the rail on the other end of the table. They really couldn't ***** about hitting the back wall because rarely did anyone's throw hit it. That surface didn't last long as all it accomplished was to drive away all the craps players. A good surface would have one of my dice bounce over the end of the table about every 12 throws or so. If a die bounces over more often the surface is too elastic. The main thing is to have a practice rig that has the same surface as were you play. I had a 14 foot craps table to practice on which I made sure had the right surface and everything to casino specs including the pyramid randomizing wall. I still have it for now but haven't practiced in many years. It is in perfect shape except a hole worn in the felt about the size of 2 dice where my throws always landed. I have another felt but never installed it.

[Bodarc]

ok, thanks Three