Casino comps & E.V

[apkevy]

I would avoid counting cards on electronic blackjack.

I'm sure electronic blackjack has capabilities for tracking the count as well as each player's bets since the card reader has to scan the cards and display them on the corresponding player's screen.

I've played electronic blackjack for fun once and there were a lot of technical difficulties. Sometimes cards wouldn't scan properly and the floor would have to come over and manually input the card that wasn't read properly.

I don't mind getting backed off that particular casino. We're talking about a 8D h17 no rsa and 70-75% pen. I just happen to play at this casino for practice purposes, as I am only 19 years old, only few casinos are available to me ( legal age is 18 in my province ). I plan to travel a lot when I turn 21 so i will hit AC, LV & west Canada often, heard they were offering way better games including pitch games where the TC is way more volatile.

[Shadowless]

For future reference, try not to give away too much information about yourself, including your age, region/province/state, places you play at regularly, etc. And I hope your nickname isn't the last part of your username here.

If there's one thing you should practice in your early stages of learning to count, it's being able to hold a conversation with someone without appearing to be interested in the cards and also being able to keep the running count and convert it to the true count without error. Moreover, accurate deck estimation is a great skill to have and very important for true count conversions.

Also, RWM recommended picking up Comp City. I own it and it's a good book if you don't understand how comps work, even if the information is a bit dated in terms of how much casinos typically give back in comp value and how they go about doing it.

I could sum up the book in one sentence: bet more when the floor is watching to influence a higher average bet, hide/ratehole chips to appear to be losing more or winning less, and play slowly or take constant breaks to keep the comp meter running.

None of those apply to your electronic blackjack case since every wager is noted and since you stated that comps are based on a set amount of dollars wagered.
When you move to physical chips, however, they will apply and are very useful.

[apkevy]

For future reference, try not to give away too much information about yourself, including your age, region/province/state, places you play at regularly, etc. And I hope your nickname isn't the last part of your username here.

If there's one thing you should practice in your early stages of learning to count, it's being able to hold a conversation with someone without appearing to be interested in the cards and also being able to keep the running count and convert it to the true count without error. Moreover, accurate deck estimation is a great skill to have and very important for true count conversions.

Also, RWM recommended picking up Comp City. I own it and it's a good book if you don't understand how comps work, even if the information is a bit dated in terms of how much casinos typically give back in comp value and how they go about doing it.

I could sum up the book in one sentence: bet more when the floor is watching to influence a higher average bet, hide/ratehole chips to appear to be losing more or winning less, and play slowly or take constant breaks to keep the comp meter running.

None of those apply to your electronic blackjack case since every wager is noted and since you stated that comps are based on a set amount of dollars wagered.
When you move to physical chips, however, they will apply and are very useful.

Thanks shadow, very useful advices about comps. Will use them when I get to play at regular tables, but for now I will stick to electronic blackjack as regular tables are 20$ min and I don't have enough of a bankroll to withstand the possible fluctuations of a 20$-320$ bet spread.

[apkevy]

I have calculated my expected profit+casino bonus along with my possible variance for the betting system that I use for both 100-1000hrs. After 100 hours, I perceive a 2k profit and 3.7k SD. After 1000hrs, i perceive 20k profit along with a 11.7k SD. Therefore, I consider this game worth playing or at least giving a try.

[Shadowless]

Thanks shadow, very useful advices about comps. Will use them when I get to play at regular tables, but for now I will stick to electronic blackjack as regular tables are 20$ min and I don't have enough of a bankroll to withstand the possible fluctuations of a 20$-320$ bet spread.

With a 20k bankroll as you stated in your original post, you have 1000 units at the $20 minimum tables, which is more than enough to withstand the fluctuations of a 1-16 spread.

Here is a link to give you an idea: https://www.blackjackincolor.com/blackjackrisk1.htm
If you played under those rules and conditions, you have a 1.8% chance of ruin.

I'm not assuming just because of your youth, but if your "bankroll" is actually your life savings, you should reconsider how much you're actually willing to risk and set aside as a true bankroll for blackjack since there is a chance of losing your entire stake.

Depending on how risk averse you are, most people find 5% or lower RoR to be acceptable (chance of success being 19/20 or higher).

[apkevy]

With a 20k bankroll as you stated in your original post, you have 1000 units at the $20 minimum tables, which is more than enough to withstand the fluctuations of a 1-16 spread.

Here is a link to give you an idea: https://www.blackjackincolor.com/blackjackrisk1.htm
If you played under those rules and conditions, you have a 1.8% chance of ruin.

I'm not assuming just because of your youth, but if your "bankroll" is actually your life savings, you should reconsider how much you're actually willing to risk and set aside as a true bankroll for blackjack since there is a chance of losing your entire stake.

Depending on how risk averse you are, most people find 5% or lower RoR to be acceptable (chance of success being 19/20 or higher).

I assume you got the 1.8% RoR from the chart you linked me to which is using a 6D S17 DOA with an 85% pen, considering the fact that the dealer will hit the S17 and that my game his less volatile than the 6D due to number of decks(8) and decent pen ( 70-75%), the chart will be significantly changed, and my RoR will be bigger right ?

Yes, my BR is almost all my life savings, therefore I would like to keep my RoR as low a possible. As i mentioned above, this is a recreational/part time job and I am new to this. With my bet spread, I should expect 15.4 $ / hour which is more than enough for me. Maybe when I turn 21 and get access to better games I will consider raising my unit value.

Again, thanks for your help, very useful

[Stealth]

It's electronic blackjack ( virtual chips ) but with a dealer dealing real cards, they don't calculate your average wagger, it just adds up as you play.

Well its a little more complicated than .33%. You are getting a $1 for each $300 wagered. If I use your game and your bet spread and playing protocol, you will bet about $2300 per hour (100 rounds) based on the frequency distribution at true count. That will generate another (2330/300= 7.77) in dollars from the rebate. Dollars, I might add, that have no variance but do add to ev. Then add the 7.77 to ev then recalculate the edge, I find you playing at about 1.06% advantage. This is somewhat bigger overall improvement than the .33% discussed. From another perspective, it actually improves ev, which was $17 per hour, by about 45%

Certainly, I made assumptions for your game that may cause the result to vary slightly. Point is that the gain should be considered by hour using total dollars bet.

[apkevy]

Well its a little more complicated than .33%. You are getting a $1 for each $300 wagered. If I use your game and your bet spread and playing protocol, you will bet about $2300 per hour (100 rounds) based on the frequency distribution at true count. That will generate another (2330/300= 7.77) in dollars from the rebate. Dollars, I might add, that have no variance but do add to ev. Then add the 7.77 to ev then recalculate the edge, I find you playing at about 1.06% advantage. This is somewhat bigger overall improvement than the .33% discussed. From another perspective, it actually improves ev, which was $17 per hour, by about 45%

Certainly, I made assumptions for your game that may cause the result to vary slightly. Point is that the gain should be considered by hour using total dollars bet.

You are right, the casino bonus has no variance, it only affects my E.V, but where did you get the 2300$/hour ? Since I am wonging out on a true -1, on average, I will play 77 hands / hour right ( based on 8D F.D) ? I could raise that number by quickly hoping to a new table i guess. Anyways, I calculated my avg. Bet and it should be 18.18$ so times 77 hands played this get me to 1400. Could be more if like I said I quickly hop to a new table. Correct me if im wrong

[Dieter]

It's electronic blackjack ( virtual chips ) but with a dealer dealing real cards, they don't calculate your average wagger

... like an iTable?

My recollection is that they're slow. Which can be good, or it can be bad. I've had good nights and bad nights playing iTables.

What side bets are available?

[Blitzkrieg]

I would avoid counting cards on electronic blackjack.

I'm sure electronic blackjack has capabilities for tracking the count as well as each player's bets since the card reader has to scan the cards and display them on the corresponding player's screen.

I've played electronic blackjack for fun once and there were a lot of technical difficulties. Sometimes cards wouldn't scan properly and the floor would have to come over and manually input the card that wasn't read properly.

The only time I played an electronic blackjack game I had an enjoyable experience and the game ran smoothly. I counted the entire time I played and was not worried about receiving any heat. I like the fact that this casino used real cards and dealers and they had a touch screen which displayed the cards. The rules and the pen were not spectacular.... H17, DOA, and shaving 2 decks off a 6D game and I still beat the house after dropping 75% of my buy-in.

[apkevy]

... like an iTable?

My recollection is that they're slow. Which can be good, or it can be bad. I've had good nights and bad nights playing iTables.

What side bets are available?

I don't remember the name of the side bet but it involves the dealer busting with 3 or more cards. I can imagine it is beatable when there are large amounts of small cards left to be played but I wong out a -1 so I dont think this is profitable for me

[biggg]

This is a nice deal, it's basically like playing a game with much better rules. Also you will probably get some nice mailer offers (free slot play or match play) based on your action.

[Stealth]

but where did you get the 2300$/hour

As I indicated, my assumptions may not fit your exact situation. I took the 8D h17 das 75% pen freq dist from cvcx (assuming full indexes) and adjusted the freq by assuming you did not play 25% of the rounds at or below -1tc. I did, however, assume you would continue to play at 100 rounds per hour which could be inaccurate if you are wonging out by just answering the phone, etc. The model I used had your average bet at $23, perhaps the ramp I used was too aggressive.

The Bonus dollars do not have any variance but when included in the calculations of the games EV the Bonus dollars will reduce your overall variance.

It also occurred that you might be able to wong in to this game. Doing so at a TC+2 really makes it a much better game.

However, the important point was to make the value of the bonus relative to the value of the play you were making and comparing it to EV helped to clarify. It appears you got the point.

If I can help further, PM me.

Happy variance!