Bigplayer, could you repost the reply answer " titled Speed KIlls" you gave on green

[BoSox]

chip? Your answer was an excellent analysis to the following generalized question that was asked by another poster.

"Suppose I have a situation where the game available is 6d S17 ds 2.0 cut but there are always open tables pre-shuffled and ready to go. I can Wong out to a new table at any point. I will never have more than one other player at the table and usually play will be heads up. Dealer speed is fast say 200 hands an hr. Would the board consider this game to be good..avg...poor?"

Thank you BoSox

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Bigplayer, is a respected A.P. whom I have met but once. I would like to see his reply.

My thoughts, for those who care, are as follows.

This game is probably marginal.

It needs to have stipulated a crucial parameter:

It could be a waste of time ~ or ~ it could be quite exploitable.

If your spread is 8-1 it is the former; at 15-1 it is the latter.

[Freightman]

Bigplayer, is a respected A.P. whom I have met but once. I would like to see his reply.

My thoughts, for those who care, are as follows.

This game is probably marginal.

It needs to have stipulated a crucial parameter:

It could be a waste of time ~ or ~ it could be quite exploitable.

If your spread is 8-1 it is the former; at 15-1 it is the latter.

S17 is unavailable in my locale - that being said, s17 makes up for some bad pen. That, and the fact that this theoretical game offers a complete wong out on every negative count significantly reduces the percentage iof hands where house holds the edge. I'll get around to simming this at various spreads, however, intuitively, this looks like a pretty good game with good spread and low heat. The 200 hph is a real bonus.

[Freightman]

S17 is unavailable in my locale - that being said, s17 makes up for some bad pen. That, and the fact that this theoretical game offers a complete wong out on every negative count significantly reduces the percentage iof hands where house holds the edge. I'll get around to simming this at various spreads, however, intuitively, this looks like a pretty good game with good spread and low heat. The 200 hph is a real bonus.

One other point in regards to this particular game, and without trying to open a system debate, the fact of the matter is that some count systems are better than others when it comes to identifying the marginal strength or weakness of a remaining shoe. Again, intuitively speaking - looks good to me. Perhaps wouldn't advise it though for those on a shoestring bankroll.

[bigplayer]

Speed Kills

By:bigplayer
Date:*5/29/2015, 1:41*pm

In Response To:*a general question for the board*(wham)

We don't all play 100 rounds per hour on all games. Best to think of N0 in terms of hours or days. Using that criteria, what appears on the surface to be a very bad game can in fact be a very good game. If you can play 200 rounds per hour of a $30 SCORE in a very efficient manner without any travel time between casinos and little travel expense versus 100 hands per hour of a $60 SCORE game in short bursts unable to easily bounce between tables you'll find out quickly that the $30 SCORE game dramatically outperforms the $60 SCORE game. If you only consider N0 in rounds you're only looking at part of the picture. It's like buying a house and only looking at the interest rate and completely ignoring the price.

These types of games don't show up very well on CVCX or CVData unless you use the custom wonging feature and set the simulator to "Force Shuffle On Exit". This simulates being able to jump immediately from table to table. You can use the Departure Adjustment to account for any delay (in rounds) between leaving one table and joining the next table. Another thing you can do is to estimate EV per shoe started based on your given strategy. By that standard the more aggressively you table hop the more EV you will make. Using that standard it's easy to see how an uncrowded casino using a "shuffle and load" approach dealing an otherwise rotten game can outperform a more crowded casino that leave the cards in the shoe that may offer a better game. Obviously there is a point where these two extremes crossover so that the better game is actually better, but I think many players assume wrongly that a bad cut game is always bad in all circumstances. It's all about how many hours it takes to get into the long run and that may not coincide with the number of rounds.

As with many things...Speed Kills. It makes more money for the casino (time and motion efficiency) and for advantage players (win-win). Shuffle and Load procedures exist because the casinos know that downtime is lost revenue. (see "Casinology" by Bill Zender). That some paranoid casinos are willing to throw money out of the window in order to prevent the relatively few AP's out there from getting the best of them only shows how stupid and vindictive some casinos are

[bigplayer]

I'll add, a game like this requires a big spread and big bankroll because of the no mid entry restrictions and a few changes in conditions can turn it quickly into a complete waste of time. Tread carefully.

[BoSox]

I'll add, a game like this requires a big spread and big bankroll because of the no mid entry restrictions and a few changes in conditions can turn it quickly into a complete waste of time. Tread carefully.

Bigplayer, thank you for the re-post on this board.The question that wham asked and the rules and conditions he gave are similar to what I often face. Although there are some favorable and unfavorable differences that I will face, which I will list below.

First unfortunately I do not have a pre-shuffled shoes waiting and ready to play. What I do have available is empty tables with idle dealers.

What I do have that was not in wham's example is late surrender. Another huge advantage is that the tables I am facing are not NMSE tables, although I play both options. Last but not least there is some rare dealer discretion on cut card placement, which requires some real homework.

BoSox

[Sonny]

I will never have more than one other player at the table and usually play will be heads up.

Sounds like a pretty empty casino. I wonder how long it will take a casino full of bored employees to catch a white rabbit. Which brings us to the biggest question - more important than the rules, pen, speed, etc. - How's the heat?

-Sonny-

[BoSox]

Sounds like a pretty empty casino.

Anything but, you only need enough empty or near empty tables to fulfill your needs.

Which brings us to the biggest question - more important than the rules, pen, speed, etc. - How's the heat?

Depends on who you talk to. I tend to blend in according to what pits I am playing at the time and found a tolerance level that is apparently okay for me.This as you already know can also be based on many other factors such the type of profile you project, and how often you visit this casino. If your having a real good day DO NOT make it a memorable day.

BoSox