Split or Double Down??

**ZeeBabar** · 05-23-2015, 10:51 AM

Please....this is ridiculous. I went back and read my question regarding splitting 4's against a 5,6. It does sound stupid for it should have said an index where 4's should not be split. You do get more pairs of 4's against a 5,6 at negative counts in a 6 deck shoe and I was wondering if and when you would deviate from BS.

There are people on the other forum who like to get their hostilities out. They saw my post here and immediately posted there and made me a subject of discussion. When you see a stupid question and it bothers you, go on to another thread rather than attempting to make fun of the poster.

For what it's worth, I am a 66 year old nearing retirement and I want to learn this game. Perhaps when I do retire and have loads of time, I will put in more hours of study but for now, it's learning on the fly because there is little time between a full time job, a family with a 13 year old and other responsibilities (Aged parent, I'll brother etc.). When. I get a bit of time on this IPad, I read and post.

KJ · 05-23-2015, 11:05 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

The other day, an older, well-dressed, Indian subcontinent-looking guy sat down at my table. He was a horrible player - splitting tens against a 9, etc. I wondered to myself if it was Zee

21forme, in the years I have participated in numerous sites with you, you seem like a pretty good guy, usually willing to help and share some experiences, although very guarded in detail.

You rarely have anything bad to say about anyone. So when this guy started to get to you, make your blood boil (I can only hope you have enough blood pressure meds) that should have been a red flag to us all. You should have been our barometer. Kind of like when the pet dog doesn't like that new guy that seems so nice.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 05-23-2015, 11:35 AM

I'm not going to read the rest of the page, but can we just keep things a little less personal, please?

I don't know about most of these 'other sites' or 'the other site' people refer to for the most part, however I am grateful that this site doesn't have a reputation for being full of people flaming each other. Go ahead and talk of others but please try to keep it as impersonal (at least when it's negative) as possible. I think it's fair game to criticize someones activity in the community (posting activity in this case), however you can do that without getting personal. I very much like this safe-haven, that isn't like the rest of the internet, where I can learn my craft.

If not for my sake, do it for the sake of the community as a whole.

**21forme** · 05-23-2015, 11:41 AM

KJ, while there are a few posters on this site I just ignore because of their stupidity, there's something about this one that gets under my skin. He's like fingernails on a blackboard - cringe-worthy and hard to ignore.

I would put him on my ignore list, but every now and then I need a good laugh, so I leave his posts available for reading

I will do my best to ignore him in the future.

**DSchles** · 05-23-2015, 12:15 PM

For what game?

Don

**DSchles** · 05-23-2015, 12:26 PM

"But the fact is this guy wasn't asking if there is an index where he should not split, he was asking what the index is for splitting 4,4 vs 5,6, which for the games that he commonly talks about is basic strategy."

So? It's hard for me to think that you don't understand this, but you're writing as if you don't. "What is the index for splitting 4,4, vs. 5,6" is a perfectly valid question! Why does it matter to you if it's BS or not, or if the indices are positive or negative? What does that have to do with it? I asked you a question, but you chose not to answer: What is the index for standing on 12 vs. 4? Is that a valid question for someone to ask, or are you going to answer: "It's basic strategy; why would you ask such a dumb question?"?

Don

**DSchles** · 05-23-2015, 12:31 PM

I see that -5 is correct for H17. But it's -2 for S17, and I always assume the latter unless I see otherwise. Clearly, here, it was never stated one way or the other.

Sorry.

Don

**21forme** · 05-23-2015, 12:36 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

I see that -5 is correct for H17. But it's -2 for S17, and I always assume the latter unless I see otherwise.

Don - with the current state of BJ as it is, you should probably assume H17. It probably makes up 90% of games these days (except in PA).

KJ · 05-23-2015, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

I asked you a question, but you chose not to answer: What is the index for standing on 12 vs. 4? Is that a valid question for someone to ask, or are you going to answer: "It's basic strategy; why would you ask such a dumb question?"?

Don

Don, I know what the index for standing 12 vs 4 is, although I choose not to play that hand by optimal play, opting instead for a 'counters basic strategy approach'. Yes, I am well aware that an index of 0 is not the same as basic strategy if that is your point.

I didn't answer because I am not interested in playing your game, where it looks like you would like to show me up or bring me down off of my high horse.

KJ · 05-23-2015, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

I see that -5 is correct for H17. But it's -2 for S17, and I always assume the latter unless I see otherwise. Clearly, here, it was never stated one way or the other.

Sorry.

Don

@ a count of -2, I am not thinking about index plays, I am cursing myself for still sitting at that table.
@ a count of -5.......wait a minute...does the count really go to -5? I've never experienced one.

I thought that was a myth like a unicorn.

**ZeeBabar** · 05-23-2015, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by 21forme

KJ, while there are a few posters on this site I just ignore because of their stupidity, there's something about this one that gets under my skin. He's like fingernails on a blackboard - cringe-worthy and hard to ignore.

I would put him on my ignore list, but every now and then I need a good laugh, so I leave his posts available for reading

I will do my best to ignore him in the future.

You can't ignore me. Never met me and assumed that I am a guy from the Indian sub-continent. That is like calling a black American someone from Africa and, by the way, Guyana is not of the Indian sub-continent.

Oneminute I am like fingernails across a black board and the next minute, I make you laugh. Make up your mind!

Notenoughheat, I apologize. I opted for this forum because of $&@$ like 21forme. he, and many others, learned from Don S and Stanford Wong about BJ, if only they had the capacity to learn about being a gentleman. They started slamming me because I did not know much about BJ and being an AP. They seem to think they own the forums and it is their responsibility to monitor and intimidate people.

There re are lots of excellent pro AP's but only a few that are decent people.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 05-23-2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

There re are lots of excellent pro AP's but only a few that are decent people.

Take note of this sentiment everyone. Whether or not the fact of the matter is accurate, the perception is still telling.

**DSchles** · 05-23-2015, 04:51 PM

" Yes, I am well aware that an index of 0 is not the same as basic strategy if that is your point."

Not my point at all. Man asked a question as to what an index was, and you berated him by telling him these were basic strategy plays. The implication was that no one should use an index for those plays. I have alwyas used indices for 4,4 vs. 5, 6 with DAS. Indices of -1 and -2 are part of thousands of counters' repertoires. I imagine you don't play much DD, where you can't back-count, and where it is imperative to know negative indices.

Yet again, I tell you that, when you know an index, BS has absolutely no meaning or importance whatsoever. You do one thing if the count is equal to or greater than the index, and you do another thing if the TC is less. Why would care about BS? If someone asked you the index for 13 vs. 2, would you lecture him about the fact that standing is BS?

Don