Can the House Advantage be Overcome by Flat Betting w/ I18?

[Stealth]

I don't really understand how flat betting could work. If you are in a deficit while building the count (which happens a lot), the idea is to ram and jam when the count gets good. Now you can recover your lost chips plus gain profit. If you're flat betting, you may not even recover lost chips, because a favorable count can drop in just a couple hands.

Flat betting an all play game is hard to get an advantage as has been indicated in other post.

Flat betting in a backcount/spotter/wong in type team play, with a bank properly sized, works quite well and can produce advantages in the 1.5% to 2.0% range.

Designing bet sizes and ramps that fit your bank are very important.

[seriousplayer]

Flat betting an all play game is hard to get an advantage as has been indicated in other post.

Flat betting a play all game give you the advantage if you have a slight advantage off the top by playing prefect basic strategy but those games no longer exist.

[stopgambling]

Still possible but difficult. Is it really worth it? Try to look for deeper pen
. If you play big enough and well enough , the hammer still drops.

[Jabberwocky]

Even with comps, probably not enough to make it worthwhile. Do you get good comps by flat betting?

In Burning The Tables in Vegas, Ian Andersen talks about a situation where someone with a massive bankroll would play 2 hands and flat bet with the early surrender option. His bets, though flat, were enormous. He would play perfectly according to the count (including all correct surrender decisions) and exit in negative shoes. The variance was massive, but the benefits were enough to be worthwhile. Since the dark side is always looking for bet variations, the flat better wasn't considered a threat.

This is the only circumstance that I have ever heard of where a flat better could make it work, but it was massive bets, perfect play, and wonging out. Your Ill18 probably just wouldn't be enough.

I was under the impression that is was late surrender. I must have a different copy of Andersen's book. Anyway, sometimes I use a variation of that strategy in 4 deck Spanish 21 to good effect.

[marriedputter]

I was under the impression that is was late surrender. I must have a different copy of Andersen's book. Anyway, sometimes I use a variation of that strategy in 4 deck Spanish 21 to good effect.

Right you are sir! I did mean to say "late" surrender and not "early." Need to take my Ginko Biloba I guess. I edited the original.

Early surrender would be an even better deal though if you can find it. It would lower the variance obviously but would still require a great bankroll with massive betting.

[Oneoffthecount]

Good point by Big Daddy on Norm's software both the CVBJ and Chapter 10. I was lucky and found Norm's software when I first started getting interested in counting. Whenever I run into someone who wants to know more I direct them to Qfit.com. If I had lost the money learning that I did playing on CVBJ, I'd have long since been in the poor house. I am a recovering plopie!!

Here is a question. Where does the house edge come from playing basic? What gives the house an edge if ties are zero sum or conversely, if you played by identical play strategy as dealer but you have the advantage of 3 to 2 blackjack, why is it that you don't obtain an edge?

[Bigdaddy]

Here is a question. Where does the house edge come from playing basic? What gives the house an edge if ties are zero sum or conversely, if you played by identical play strategy as dealer but you have the advantage of 3 to 2 blackjack, why is it that you don't obtain an edge?

Easy answer - you have go first. So for example, both you and the house have a 16 on the first two cards. You have to hit your stiff first. House wins...

[Bodarc]

Bigdaddy

Before you go into the high limit area betting $100 with a 2 spread for comps and to establish yourself as a high roller, you might want to take a look at your bankroll, standard deviation and risk of ruin. All of the statistics you have been quoting are based on the long run. They could wind up to be very expensive comps.

As for me, I'll take a Motel 6 and potted meat as long as the money keeps piling up, then I'll splurge and eat Ramen Noodles.

[Oneoffthecount]

Thanks Big Daddy

[Bodarc]

if you played by identical play strategy as dealer but you have the advantage of 3 to 2 blackjack, why is it that you don't obtain an edge?

If you play mimic the dealer and hit until you have 17 then stand you will be playing at about a 5 to 6% disadvantage.

[Jabberwocky]

Eat Ramen? Lab rats fed a diet of primarily Ramen noodles developed early signs of Alzeheimer's in a controlled study. OUCH!

[ZenMaster_Flash]

"Burning The Tables in Vegas" offers a great deal of bad advice.

It is a fun read, but it does NOT apply to this, the 21st Century.

[biggg]

I used to do this and was racking up huge comps betting 100-400 for long sessions. Enough that if you combine the mailers, free plays, comp cash, tourney invites it was definitely worth it and better than some big spread and wonging. Eventually they cut my theoretical way down to the point it wasn't great anymore but I still get solid offers.