Wonging in and our?

[Dolphinswin]

Hi all, new to the forum! Have been strolling around blackjack forums for a while searching for answer. When using hi lo count, $5 min 6 deck shoe, dealer hit soft 17, no surrender.

What is a good enough true count for a player to join the game?
Do you join the game hoping you win the first hand and the RC ends up going down resulting in a less favorable true count, or do you just play and hope the odds get more favorable in which you raise your wager? Surely if you join at a lower TC say +1, the advantage could change on your very sudden, so is it a better idea to wait for a better true count?

Thanks

[Shoofly]

I enter at about +2. If the count drops slightly, say to about +1, I will stay with the game betting minimum. If the count drops further, I exit the table.

[Pokerplayer]

There are a lot of ways to do this. If you're worried about having to leave soon after starting play you can just stand behind the seat to make a bet which makes it look like you're in a hurry. If the count drops, you can leave and it looks like you were only going to play a hand or two. If the count sky rockets you can take a seat and play some more.

You can also decide to Wong out at a count of -1 and table hop. You can play minimum for your slightly negative and neutral counts and have a small spread of 1-8 or so. You'll want to check out norms software to get specifics on win rate and ROR and such but I use a similar approach at one local store with a larger minimum and it works ok.

From what I've seen it lowers the ROR and winrate from a play all approach but for me the lower ROR makes up for the lower winrate. I'm not an longtime member so I would be interested to hear what other say of this approach.


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[Jabberwocky]

Hit 17, no surrender! WTF! Don't be a fool.

[muffdiver]

Hit 17, no surrender! WTF! Don't be a fool.

I play many H17, no surrender games at a good plus EV. Would I like to have S17 and surrender? Of course I would, but there are many other factors that can make "poor rules" games lucrative.

muffdiver

[Jabberwocky]

I play many H17, no surrender games at a good plus EV. Would I like to have S17 and surrender? Of course I would, but there are many other factors that can make "poor rules" games lucrative.

muffdiver

I assumed the OP was in the process of bankroll building since he mentioned wonging at $5 tables. But relentlessly wonging will get you a back off. If your bankroll is huge, then you can attack those lesser games with impunity.

[Freightman]

Hit 17, no surrender! WTF! Don't be a fool.

Deep pen makes up for many transgressions. Don't count any game out before you've simmed it against other readily available games.

[Jabberwocky]

Deep pen makes up for many transgressions. Don't count any game out before you've simmed it against other readily available games.

But deep pen is notoriously difficult to find. To make up for it, surrender with S17 are necessary for a limited bankroll. That's all I was trying to get across.

[Freightman]

But deep pen is notoriously difficult to find. To make up for it, surrender with S17 are necessary for a limited bankroll. That's all I was trying to get across.

I walked into a particular sweatshop in Vegas a while back. The place was dead, except the packed dd$25 table. No other $25 was available. No logic to the fact thatI sat down, for shits and giggles, at a $5 table and got a heads up 6d shoe game. Game was no surrender h17 with average 5.5-5.75 dealt.

They were all over me to get a players card etc - took a grilling about where I was from - where I played - did I have a fore skin. Can't recall anymore, but may have been my best session at vegas on that trip. Never did get the players card.

The only local game available to me, other than CSM, is an 8 decker with average 1.5 cut, though house protocol is 2.0. The game $25 min, h17, rsa, does offer surrender. I was in for about 3500 with about 6 or 7 hands left. The rookie dealer gave about 7.5/8. I finished the shoe at a (modest) profit.

As far as I'm concerned - deep pen makes up for numerous transgressions - though I sure like a surrender game. Ironically, there is no s17 in my locale, and for that matter, have never played s17 anywhere. I don't think of it as any big deal.

[RS]

Either works. Sim it for the best answer (CVCX).

When I play, it depends on other conditions. If there's just one player, I'll wait until a +2 or so to wong in. If there's only 1 or 2 spots open, I'll be more likely to jump in at a +1.


PS: The true count tends to stay constant. As cards are being depleted, so is the running count, at a similar and constant rate (expected) and the TC stays the same. Do the math. 5 decks remaining with an RC of +10. TC is +2. Every 1 deck (52 cards) played, you expect the RC to decline by 2. So after 1 deck you get RC = +8 and decks = 4 :. TC = +2. Etc.

[Frank Galvin]

Jabberwocky, those are pretty common rules for shoe games, especially where DAS, NRA, 66-80% pen. WTF? Really?

[Jabberwocky]

Sure but the M.I.T. Blackjack team wouldn't touch it. I play DD with all the standard rules found in multi-deck, 75% pen and late surrender.

[Frank Galvin]

There are a lot of things that players have to do now that could (and would/should) have been laughed of even as recently as the days when the MIT reigned. Like play H17, no ES/LS blackjack in a large % of all casinos. True?