4 greens vs. 1 black

[Cloudstreets7087]

This morning I had a great visit to the casino. I walked around awhile and found a table with two other players. Sat down and waited for the shoe to finish. The new shoe started ramping the count right out of the gate. Only took about three or four hands to start ramping the bet. I was at a $25 table and bought in for $500.

The guy to my right had some $100 black chips and whenever he put one out the dealer announced it. Yet when I was putting out 4 greens or 8 greens she said nothing. Thought that was odd. Worked out for me though. I didn't mind at all!!

left with $950 and played less than half the shoe. The count fell off a cliff. So I skipped a hand to count my chips and colored up. Said something like, anytime I get greedy I lose all my chips. Better get while the gettin's good.

Off I went.

[RS]

They track black chips and higher. They don't track greens and lower.

[Three]

They track black chips and higher. They don't track greens and lower.

To clarify, the announce the call to alert the floor chips are in play that need to be tracked. The dealer must keep track of how many black chips are won or lost. This is to make sure theft by an employee is not chips higher than a certain denomination. You must watch the reaction of the suits though. While the call is primarily for tracking chips and rating better players for comps it can can cause additional scrutiny.

[ZenKinG]

ALWAYS use lower denomination chips regardless of cover. You will have a much more pleasant experience, unless of course you're chasing comps and you want the pit to notice. Also don't stop at 4 greens, the beauty of using lower denomination chips is that now you can stack them as much as 16-20 greens before it looks awkward and get 400-500 worth of action on each spot that you are playing and the dealer cant even call out purple action either. Also surveillance will also have a tougher time calculating how much exact money you got riding on the spots. Adding to this, you can really mess up surveillance's' tracking of your play by taking a stack of chips and hovering over your bet in the betting circle and changing your bet. By doing this you are blinding the 'eye' with your hovering hand and if they are using any software to see your fluctuation of bets based on the count, you now have thrown the ultimate monkey wrench into their software and they wont have an idea of how much you took off or added to your previous stack.

[Three]

Adding to this, you can really mess up surveillance's' tracking of your play by taking a stack of chips and hovering over your bet in the betting circle and changing your bet. By doing this you are blinding the 'eye' with your hovering hand and if they are using any software to see your fluctuation of bets based on the count, you now have thrown the ultimate monkey wrench into their software and they wont have an idea of how much you took off or added to your previous stack.

This is a really bad idea. It looks really suspicious and may look like you are trying to cheat. Nothing will make you the thing surveillance is focused on faster than something like this. If surveillance is already watching you causing you to need to hover your hand you should be out the door already. If they aren't watching you nothing will make you the center of attention more than suspicious activity that makes you look like you are trying to get away with something. You want to blend into the crowd not stand out. Surveillance isn't up there looking for counters. Their primary responsibility is cheats and watching employees. They have to watch the entire property. It is not like they have a bunch of guys up there dedicated to catching counters. They have more important things to look for which may have you get caught counting because they are watching suspicious activity at your table or maybe you are playing the counter trap game that they do watch closely.

[Orangechip2]

This morning I had a great visit to the casino. I walked around awhile and found a table with two other players. Sat down and waited for the shoe to finish. The new shoe started ramping the count right out of the gate. Only took about three or four hands to start ramping the bet. I was at a $25 table and bought in for $500.

The guy to my right had some $100 black chips and whenever he put one out the dealer announced it. Yet when I was putting out 4 greens or 8 greens she said nothing. Thought that was odd. Worked out for me though. I didn't mind at all!!

left with $950 and played less than half the shoe. The count fell off a cliff. So I skipped a hand to count my chips and colored up. Said something like, anytime I get greedy I lose all my chips. Better get while the gettin's good.

Off I went.

Different houses different rules. I've been to places that only call purple action out loud.. & then there's the places that call checks play for 5-6 green chips.

nice monetary gain !

[KJ]

There's good and bad in playing green vs black. Obviously, as alreqdy mentioned, if you are trying to draw minimal attention, you would prefer to not have the dealer yelling "black action". For this reason, I play green as long as possible. Problem is that at some point the dealer usually starts paying off your green wagers with black. Often $300 bets seems to trigger this. A stack of 8 green is often still paid off with a matching stack of 8 green, while a stack of 12 or 16 green is more likely to be paid in black, in my experience. Of course it's all dealer dependent, as sometimes a dealer goes right on paying stacks of 16 green with 16 green. Ya never know. And sometimes it is less about the dealer than a particular casino's procedures.

But when you are fortunate enough to find a place or dealer that continues to pay your stacks of green with stacks of green, then you have the problem of coloring up. I like to just jump up and exit with chips in hand without coloring up. That becomes difficult to do with anything more than about $600 in green. At that point, not coloring up becomes a big attention draw and is a big negative.

[ZenKinG]

This is a really bad idea. It looks really suspicious and may look like you are trying to cheat. Nothing will make you the thing surveillance is focused on faster than something like this. If surveillance is already watching you causing you to need to hover your hand you should be out the door already. If they aren't watching you nothing will make you the center of attention more than suspicious activity that makes you look like you are trying to get away with something. You want to blend into the crowd not stand out. Surveillance isn't up there looking for counters. Their primary responsibility is cheats and watching employees. They have to watch the entire property. It is not like they have a bunch of guys up there dedicated to catching counters. They have more important things to look for which may have you get caught counting because they are watching suspicious activity at your table or maybe you are playing the counter trap game that they do watch closely.

How does that look suspicious? It seems like a completely natural way to raise or take off chips from the betting circle. Many people always have chips in their hand, all you're doing is taking those chips and connecting them to the chips in the betting circle and adjusting the bet.

[Three]

How does that look suspicious? It seems like a completely natural way to raise or take off chips from the betting circle. Many people always have chips in their hand, all you're doing is taking those chips and connecting them to the chips in the betting circle and adjusting the bet.

It is the hovering your hand over your bets that you described to block the cameras view of your bet that looks out of the ordinary. I have never seen anyone do that. You also assume the only cameras are looking down at the table. That may or may not be true.

By doing this you are blinding the 'eye' with your hovering hand

So what you will have happen if they are looking which is what you are assuming is they will start to focus on your obvious attempts to hide what you are doing. They will then focus on you because they think you are likely a cheat. Then they will figure out you are a card counter. The idea is to blend and do noting that makes you stand out. If it is a place you play infrequently doing nothing like an AP can keep you off the radar. If you are a regular they will see through that eventually. i don't care if they see me changing my bet or if they know how much it is. My play is already geared to buy me the time I need. I notice the heat I can see. The last thing I want to do is become a target for the heat I can't see. I think that is the dumbest thing you can do. You have no way to assess what you can't see so you must assume you or your table is always being watched. I don't want them to have any extra reason to focus on me. If they get curious about what you are hiding your days will be numbered.

[ZenKinG]

It is the hovering your hand over your bets that you described to block the cameras view of your bet that looks out of the ordinary. I have never seen anyone do that. You also assume the only cameras are looking down at the table. That may or may not be true.


So what you will have happen if they are looking which is what you are assuming is they will start to focus on your obvious attempts to hide what you are doing. They will then focus on you because they think you are likely a cheat. Then they will figure out you are a card counter. The idea is to blend and do noting that makes you stand out. If it is a place you play infrequently doing nothing like an AP can keep you off the radar. If you are a regular they will see through that eventually. i don't care if they see me changing my bet or if they know how much it is. My play is already geared to buy me the time I need. I notice the heat I can see. The last thing I want to do is become a target for the heat I can't see. I think that is the dumbest thing you can do. You have no way to assess what you can't see so you must assume you or your table is always being watched. I don't want them to have any extra reason to focus on me. If they get curious about what you are hiding your days will be numbered.

Many people when listening listen with the intent to reply rather than to understand. And you my friend have that problem. Do you realize that hovering your hand to block the camera is a natural way to bet? Anyone who goes to change the bet is theoretically blocking the camera. The only difference is you have a stack of chips in your hand, which is completely natural as well and you are adjusting your bet all at once rather than go back and forth to adjust your bet. Nothing suspicious about that

[Three]

It is the word hovering that I am having trouble with. Hovering implies slow to move.

Definition of hovering: To remain floating suspended or fluttering in the air. To remain or linger in or near a location.

Most people don't hover their hand over their bet. Don't blame me if you failed to describe what you meant properly. I was just trying to protect those that took what you wrote as written. This is a help forum not get people more heat forum. I feel compelled to respond when what is written is just going to get people in trouble.

[ZenKinG]

Well when one changes their bet they are likely hovering over the betting circle for about 1 or 2 seconds. Everyone hovers, i wasn't talking about hovering for 10 seconds. Im talking about the natural hover where one is changing their bets, just change the bet with a stack in your hand while simultaneously blocking the cameras view.

[aggressive]

ALWAYS use lower denomination chips regardless of cover. You will have a much more pleasant experience, unless of course you're chasing comps and you want the pit to notice. Also don't stop at 4 greens, the beauty of using lower denomination chips is that now you can stack them as much as 16-20 greens before it looks awkward and get 400-500 worth of action on each spot that you are playing and the dealer cant even call out purple action either. Also surveillance will also have a tougher time calculating how much exact money you got riding on the spots. Adding to this, you can really mess up surveillance's' tracking of your play by taking a stack of chips and hovering over your bet in the betting circle and changing your bet. By doing this you are blinding the 'eye' with your hovering hand and if they are using any software to see your fluctuation of bets based on the count, you now have thrown the ultimate monkey wrench into their software and they wont have an idea of how much you took off or added to your previous stack.

this is a really bad idea. you don't want your hand anywhere near your bet once it's down especially since a lot of dealers are quick to start drawing. no need to draw attention to yourself