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Thread: My Gamble - Broke to EV (LONG READ)

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    My Gamble - Broke to EV (LONG READ)

    I don't have much to give back to this community so I figured I'd share my life gamble to this point. It's pretty degenerate so this is a story of possibilities and caution. I know you degens out there might enjoy this story a tad. Lots of overbetting bankrolls and max table bets.

    High school BR building:

    I started my gambling career as a poker player before turning to blackjack near the last few years before Black Friday. I was in high school when I started seriously putting in hours online on Full Tilt and Stars, more so than my actual school work and nearly failed high school. I was so degenerate that I did a 12 hour poker session before my SAT. I made less than $5,000 for all my efforts.


    18 and broke:

    I went to my very first casino at Jackson's Rancheria in California for a 3 day trip. I brought around $2000. I lost a flip with AK vs 85 preflop shove for $300 (FIRST POT EVER) and lost a massive three way pot to my own FRIEND who tried to value me for $75 into a $500 pot when I folded TPTK against his river trips. The next morning there weren't many poker tables open so I sat down at a blackjack table and decided to play. This was the start of my blackjack career. At the time I knew some sort of basic strategy, but no spread, regardless I bought in for $300. People were coming and going, I stayed at that table for 8-9 hours straight, I did not get up to pee once, my fingers were black from the felt. I left with nothing. Day three came around the corner and after a night of reading online, I was ready to get back in that table. I ended up broke and lost my remaining $1k and so was my will to gamble for the next few years.


    21 and BJ:
    I turned 21 and due to the courtesy of my friends, I made a trip out to the casino for the first time in a long time. Re-sparked my poker drive and for the next year I crushed the 1-3 scene and occasionally moved to 2-5. I was averaging an insane $40/hr win rate at 1/3 over 700 hours. With some of this spent into my new car - honda civic and a decent sized BR for 1/3, somehow I found myself dabbling in the world of blackjack again. Near the end of all my poker sessions I would play a 1-3 hour blackjack session and to be honest, I ran like god. Lacking knowledge in every department (still do), I crushed the game with positive variance on my side. On more than one occasion, probably 4-5 times to be honest, I overbet in consideration to my BR in a single hand of ($2-3K). I won each time I did it and basically martingaled all my losses with a lucky break. Each time I would return home in the wee mornings of 5-6 am with the sun out and a big smile on my face. I felt invincible, so much that I was reayd to take on the world of card counting at Vegas.


    1 Month Vegas Trip:
    I brought $15,000 with me to Vegas and went with one other friend. Another guy was going to meet us up after one week.


    Week 1: We stayed at Circus Circus for our first two weeks. I lost my first poker session at the WYNN for less than $300. I ended up cutting my poker session short and went to card count (why I really wanted to go to Vegas). I ended up making over $1000 profit after my poker loss. I ate like a champ that day. The run good would continue on for the next week and I think I was up to $19,000 by the end of the week.


    Week 2: We're still at Circus Circus and my friend meets us up. I decide to play poker with him for fun and he loses around $500 and I was up barely. We decide to go count cards at the blackjack table. We have a moderate return on our money, but none the less, it was time to feast at the WYNN (by this time I was comped for their buffets and with a poker pass we could skip the lines). After our meal and his first day of feeling that lifestyle, we decide another short blackjack session couldn't hurt. My other friend protested it was late, but we didn't listen. We ended up playing a 12 hour session. I was in the hole for $3K. My friend was in the hole for $4.5K. I crawled out alive profiting a small $300 profit by the end of it all, but my friend was not so lucky. He went busto and went to the local atm and withdrew all his cash. He still did not make it. Perhaps I should've been more firm and stopped him, but I wanted him to succeed and win it all back (like I was). We went back to the room that morning with my other friend awake, he asked how'd we do. My friend cut his two week vegas trip short and booked the next flight out. It was brutal. I discussed with my friend about his actions at the time as irresponsible, poor br, everything with a pity. I thought to myself, don't end up like him. Yet I was playing exactly like him, I just managed to not to lose those flips. I was going to learn.


    Week 3: At this point I'm above $20,000 and have a schedule of hitting Treasure Island in the morning, walk over to the Rivera for their $5 game and spread like a mad man, then hit the encore and WYNN. Keep it short and nice. I think I ended up losing pretty big at TI one morning, but recovered over at rivera and encore. One more week to go and I get to lock up this $10K, I decided to end my day short and find my friend over at the WYNN poker tables. He said last orbit so I got bored and decided to play a deck. I mean why not, I'm up $10K in 3 weeks and feeling like a god. That session turned into a 6 hour session and I was firing over $2-3K per hands (much like my local casino - see the habit)? I still remember the two biggest hands of my life. I fired two hands of $800 and had a 16 and 2-2 against a dealer 6. I split the deuces and two more sets of deuces came out splitting them all for $4800 (i doubled on one). I did not have a hand above 18 I believe. I dont recall the card the dealer hit, but I remember it was a five underneath and I got swiped. Although I had no bankroll management I was still counting (so give me props for that). At this point I'm probably back to where I've started and around $10K after that big chase loss into a semi-positive deck. I took out my last $100 brick in my cargo pocket and spreaded to four hands and fired it $1000 each at a RUNNING COUNT OF 1. The dealer was showing a four and I doubled down a soft ace and another hand of 9. I got swiped. I didn't have much money left and I still had to pay off my room fees, plane and still had a week to go. So I wanted to be responsible and leave myself with my remaining thousands. I walked away. Oh right, my friend finished his orbit and watched me. He tried to stop me but I didnt listen. I quote him, "we have another week to play, you dont have to do this. Don't open that brick, play next week. I'll stake you, etc etc". To this day, I joke about it with him. You should've pulled me back physically. But much like my friend who went broke earlier and planed out on his first day, he wanted me to succeed as well. Plus its my fault tbh. BETTER TO LEARN NOW WITH LESS MONEY THAN LATER!


    Week 4: I forgot to tell the story that we transitioned to Treasure Island hotel, so the room was nicer when I sobbed in the bathroom that night. Okay I didn't really cry, but I felt like it, a lot. I went on my phone and looked up in a thousand different ways of - do i need help, am I degenerate gambler, gambling addiction, and read up on other people's stories of how much money they've lost. Anything I could grab and relate to, I looked up. You know that moment. I took a long shower that night, just sat in the tub and kicked the water around. I splashed it all over the bathroom floor as if it was representing the tears that I should've shed.


    Over the next few days I started and finished season 1 of breaking bad. Two days before we left for Vegas, I finally accepted everything and decided to go play some poker for the daily $175-200 MTT. I bubbled their 120 man at like 17th place with QQ 25bbs against 10 bb with 10s shove and AK chipleader overcall. AK hits on the flop. I final tabled another smaller one at the WYNN $150 for 50 man and busted 9th for no cash. I went to my host and asked for comps, i went to the Steve Wynn Steakhouse and ate my $350+ comps. Most expensive steak and wine I've ever had in my life. I ordered wine I couldn't even pronunciate, nor do I have a taste for, but that was irrelevant. I was salty as fuck.


    I'm Broke Again:
    I'm 22 at this point and I haven't gambled for quite some time since Vegas. I've been focused in school and attempting to finish up my finance and perhaps go into CPA route (dear this sounds horribly boring). On the side I'm day trading full time monday through friday and set up my classes at night. Compared to the market average returns and how 75% of everything has literally doubled, I would've made more if I just buy, hold and sell instead of day trading, no regrets now. To be fair, I'm not financially broke, but as far as gambling terms go, yeah I'm broke. With that said, somehow my same Vegas friend drags me back into the world of gambling yet again. I re-hit the local casino that I built my original bankroll on.


    I crush the first few sessions of 1-3 and offer my friend to stake me for 60% juice at the 2-5 table. He takes the offer and I make him several thousands in the course of a couple weeks. We continue this staking until one day I run my backdoor turned opened ended str8t flush draw and blank 17 outs for $1K loss. My first loss in a very long time and I was forced to do it (considering equity and everything involved). I decided if I was going to play any more poker that day I'd be chasing and didn't want more losses for my friend so I decided to use my own money at blackjack that day, two months ago.


    Two months to Present:
    I can't recall what I made on that first session but it must've been good because I have not touched poker since that day. I think in these past two months, I've learned a bit more about blackjack than over the course of the past few years. I still have much to learn obviously and plenty of indexes more. I also know I've been on a super heater, but I've had some sick variance as well to be fair. Reflecting back on my past trips of going to BUSTO-LAND, there have been a few times where I've been in for $2.5k-3K at the tables AGAIN in the past few weeks, so clearly I have not learned. I'm attempting to lower my bet, but the spread is so inticing and profitable though my gambling BR cannot support it. According to CVCX, with a few more winning sessions and at a 15-20% ROR currently I'll have a decent shot at never looking back with my spread. I'm approaching my first IMPROVED 100 hours in 2 months of blackjack (I tombstone my tables at my local store and I have a young kids face to be honest so I'm really pushing it). With that being said, I'm averaging $160/hr with a max spread of 30-1 (one hand) and sometimes I go two hands. According to CVCX and some theoritcal estimation of 2% edge (thanks to you guys comments), my win rate should be around $70/HR tops.


    Returning to Vegas:
    I'll be returning to Vegas in 1.5 weeks for 4 days 3 nights this time. I don't fathom I'll need too much this time as it's only 4 days and hopefully, dear god, I don't need to break open any bricks. I plan on keeping it chill and grindy. Hit the rivera, hit the TI, avoid the WYNN unless I can abuse my comps from last year (pretend I"ll play a lot more than I really will from the host - after all, I"M A BIG LOSER THERE). After returning from Vegas, I'll have a one to two day break, which I'll probably use to hit up my local store immediately after (assuming Vegas doesn't tear my asshole) and then I'll fly over to Reno for another 2 day trip. I heard they can do DD after DD, that sounds profitable. I hope I don't repeat last year's Vegas. I'm honestly a little scared for that. Writing this, I'm actually getting more scared. I hope my run good continues and doesn't stop in the worst place ever - Vegas. Knock on wood.


    My gambling life from the past 5 years

    ------------------ UPDATE: June 26, 2015 ---------------------------

    A lot has happened to my bankroll in the last 3 months. I didn't get in too much time, some weeks I went 6/7 days pumping in 10-15 hours a day, some weeks I didnt go at all. I'll cover the big events in my mind right now, but as I'm writing this, I've been up for past 24 hours. If I recall correctly I was really happy a few months ago with my "improved" card counting skills and was excited with my super run good heater, was on my way to 1600 betting units within 2 months time of work. It was not long before this crazy string of events happened.

    High Limit Room $6K is the number!

    2 days before another 3 day Vegas trip, I went bad at the $10 min table. Orginally for my first 1-2 hours, I was up no more than $500. Then I lost around $3K within 3-4 hours of play. I took a dinner break and afterwards went into the HL room. Bought in for $1.5K at a 50 min table and lost it. Down 4.5K. My wallet was pretty much empty and I dont bring my CC because I honestly don't trust myself, so this is a solid way of prevention. Fortunately, or unfortunately, my friend was there to loan me another $1.5K. $6K was my break even number. I don't know how long I played, but ran well. So well I got my stack up to $5.9K. I told myself, $100 and I walk away and stop for the night. I think I went home very sad that night... Very sad... It was right before my Vegas trip and this demoralized me quite a bit.

    Desperate 3 Day Vegas $6K is still the number!

    I brought $5K to vegas. The whole plane ride with my 3 friends, was non stop me *****ing about how I'm going to press it. Not even care if I get banned. About going $25 to $700 just like that. No ramp, blah blah blah, crying pretty much. Shocked my friends put up with it for the next 2-3 hours of plane, setting up our rooms etc. Day 1) $1.5K bouncing around all the joints. Managed to even pull out like $500 out of TI sweatjoint. Had to act a bit. Also timed it down to 1.5-2.5 hours (i tend to tombstone so thats fast for me). Day 2) After a quick 3-4 hour session on day 2 - I was up $2.5K collectively - jolly and happy as I could be, I met up my friends for lunch at the grand lux. I remember this because that started a chain reaction. My friends said what do you want to do, I was like, Im down to chill. Happy with my profits and ready to lock it up. Fast forward a bit, I got baited into following a friend and walked the vegas strip for like 20 minutes. Found a blackjack table at the ceasar and played. Within 20 minutes, RC went up to like 20-25, forgot the TC. I blasted it twice, lost my initial $500 buy in. Bought in for another $500 and fired it in one shot. Missed again. Down 1K in 30 minutes. Deck got cold. I think I saw someone got paid 6:5 on their $25 min bet. That tilted me. Should've been a 3:2 game, I probably would've noticed sooner, but I think the tilt got to me and I imagined that. Threw me off. ANyways got mad and left. Friend baited me to walking the strip for another 20 minutes. I was like, hey let's get another sesh going. He's like yeah! So we walked and I followed him into a poker room... He said he needed to cash out $50 chips in his pocket, but he bought in. Tilted me. Walked back to the Wynn to lose $5.5K in under 5-6 hours. Went back to my room at 9pm and watched cartoons on my laptop till my friends returned from our prearranged $100-150 steakhouse meal (i skipped it). Day 3) Played roulette and lost another $200 right in the morning. Took a shot at blackjack before my plane out and rode my remaining cash to $4.5K. Got saved on my day 3 after my epic blow up childish steam.

    2 Days of BIG BAD CARD COUNTING ERRORS

    This happened within the last 30 days or somewhere around there. Day 1, I lost a few grand at the outside table. As usual, I humbly walked into the HL room with whatever remaining grands i had left in my wallet. Deck got really hot, I spread $50 min to 2 hands x $800. I picked up a 18 and 14, dealer had Ace. Insurance? TC was well above 4. So I'm like holy shit! Time to ensure. Open wallet. $150 less in change in it. OH FUCK ME. I call over floor to hold the hand (i'm playing heads up in the HL so they like yeah we can wait). Then I realized I had one problem, I didnt have my CC - I never bring it because I lack self control and this was my way to prevent reloading when steaming. Well I said to the dealer, I 100% insure the full thing. Yep he had blackjack. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE MONEY TO ENSURE AND FIRE ANOTHER BULLET IF DECK CALLS FOR IT. Very costly mistake. Sat in the food court and watched Warriors vs Cleveland (forgot which game) hey was that less than 1 month ago?

    The next day I woke up at 9am and hit the casino with 4 hours of sleep. Ready to grind and win some of it back - hopefully. Spreaded at the $10 min to 2 hands x $500. Got 11 and Aces against something. Forgot. Split Aces 4 times in an obviously hot deck (otherwise I wouldnt be betting it like that); didnt find a single 20+. Doubled down the 11 and got something like 5-7. Hand got swiped for $3K. Doubled down soft 18 for $1K against 6. Peeled an 8 and lost. After all this run bad, found 2 extremely hot decks and spreaded to 3 hands maxing out each circle and betting on other people hand. Mistake: when finally broke even, I lowered the $500s to $300-400s instead of pushing it. Funny how when you're behind and down, you can chase and never afraid. Once you're up, you want to cash out as quickly as possible. Couldn't stop thinking about how silly that is, if imma press behind hard, should press just as hard ahead.

    June 19-22 Vegas Trip (6 Deck 75% Penetration Liberal Rules):

    Day 1) Up $900.
    Day 2) Up $1.2K. Happy with my trip over this weekend, went to bacchanal as the usual buffet. Finished and walked back to the casino. Played some roulette and a few shots with all my friends to celebrate. Came up $200 after 4 hours. Was still too early. Saw empty BJ table. Wanted to hit my $3K goal for $1k per vegas day. Sat down. Deck was hot. Bet big. Dealer Ace. Insured for $200. Nope. Lost hand. Bet Big. Dealer Ace. Insured. REpeat. Repeat. Did it about 4 $100-300 insurances in that one shoe and lost all of them. Was in for $2.5-3K within that shoe.

    36 Hours Awake / 30 Hours Blackjack Session:

    So starting from day 2 Saturday into my Monday flight. I played blackjack. Got up like once. Cant really recall. I checked out of my room and still played. Oh I saw another card counter at my next table, the way he was spreading his hands and you know what, pretty obvious. Anyways he cashed out $10K within a couple hour and jetted. By that time, I was like $10K in the hole. Actually I bought in for everything I had. I was down to my last $2K. In the next 12 hours I climbed that $2K into $12K. Felt great. Actually it was $11,702.75. I tipped the dealer $2.75. This asian dealer gave me the fuck you face and didnt touch my tip. Left it there. I think I should've just kept it and bought myself a boba or something. Looks better to not even tip at that point. Ooops. Fascinated I was thinking about that $2.75 for the next hour instead of how lucky I was instead of going home broke $0 instead of $12K.

    All I have to say is, the double deck I'm seeing in Vegas in nice resorts are getting worse and worse. 50-60% PEN everywhere.

    Summary: Over all for the time I invested in the last 3 months, my actual BR has not grown much since the high point. Of course I've gone on some bad downswings like splitting aces for a decent chunk of my roll and losing it and having to grind it back; so I guess it's a win. Sorta like freerolling a shot taking, but not really... Had to get "lucky" to get back in the first place.

    Really want to hit my first BR goal of hitting $30K profits in under 500 hours. I should be able to play at least at a $50/hrly at 20-25% ROR when I'm spreading to 2x $300s average at $10 mins.

    **Oh and just so no one worries**: This is extra capital so I'm quote on quote okay with losing it at high volatility if it's going in with an edge (who's ever okay with losing this type of relative money)...
    Last edited by 20 to 1 Spread; 06-26-2015 at 01:54 AM.

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    good story, lesson learnt. like many gurus in this forum already pointed out: 1. keep each session short, one hour or less, that is to keep your mental in highest status for the complexity of the bj game. 2. set a limit for each session, that is that you bring $2000 for the day, if you lose $1000, concede defeat, get up and leave, go to another store, you down for another $500, that is not your day, call it off for the day. 3. get a profession, only play bj for fun.

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    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    I'm about a tenth of they way in and its already an awesome story ...

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    Senior Member Nikky_Flash's Avatar
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    5 star post , i read the whole thing , im hoping you stick to a positive plan no matter what , and turn it around for the good..what I mean - is to forget all the gambling and chasing. if you want to e mail me , let me know ...and I'll post it for a day or two...

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    I think this is a cautionary tale about how dangerous a little bit of knowledge can be. If I were you, I would take a big step back and stop going to the casino altogether. It sounds like you're an action junkie. I think you need to come to terms with the idea that you may have a serious gambling addiction (it seems like you already came to this conclusion but just brushed it off?). Playing with an advantage (counting cards, in this case) and having a gambling addiction are NOT mutually exclusive.

    At the very least, you should stop playing blackjack IMMEDIATELY and read many books about the subject before playing again. I'd suggest books with in-depth coverage of bankroll management and risk. It's hard enough to be successful at counting cards when you're disciplined, don't handicap yourself by rushing into it.

    Good luck.

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    @Nikky_Flash - thanks man. I'm honestly trying, now that I've rebuilt my bankroll yet again, I'm hoping not to repeat the past - again. While I still have a pretty BUSTO-land mentality; if the deck gets hotter I'm willing to even go to a 40-1 spread or w/e I think I can get away with, I'd fired it really. At times this would mean only 3-4 bullet left in my pockets and if they lose, I'd have to walk away from even a hot deck (which I've done once in the past month).

    @The Suburbs - Greatly phrased about how dangerous little knowledge can be. While I guess in many eyes it's a super gambling addiction, which I've spent the last 5 minutes thinking of a response to this, and perhaps I do, heck I"m not even sure. (I'm about to hit my local casino up after a shower and responding to this). But with that said, I'm not an action junkie, I don't go in there with expectations of thousands. Hand to god, most days I go in, I just hope to break even or come up $50. That was a win for me. As for my personality when it came to gambling before hand, I was an ABC-Nit style low variance small ball poker player. While I would buy in for $1000 or match chipleader at the table at the 1-3, I would never intentionally stack off with semi-draws and high variance bluffs. Relating this back to BJ, I want to grind this out. But when let's say my big bet of $200 1 hand loses and the TC goes up slightly higher and we get deeper into the shoe, I'm willing to now increase that to $200 2 hands. I know I'm doing one of the biggest blackjack mistakes by disregarding bankroll, but according to CVCX a few more winning sessions and my ROR is relatively low as long as I keep this spread and not increase. The thing is, I know a small chunk of deviations from BS, indexes, perfect count with side and a face you'd never think would be a card counter.

    None the less, I know what I'm doing is highly risky and the reason why majority of people fail in the first place. Hell i failed a couple times already. I'll be rehitting the store today and try to limit myself at my max bet. With that said, I'll reflect about this with my friends with you guys opinions and ask them what they think. It's pretty degen, I know, hopefully this is a cautionary tale of one who made it.

    I think the biggest issue of concern here is the fact that I'm disregarding bankroll (YET AGAIN) and with this chase-mentality or willingness to fire will get me into hot waters despite however big my BR grows. Hopefully I'm wrong. I'm really trying to limit my bets by bringing less to the table each time, but still is a sizable portion to my overall bankroll.
    Last edited by 20 to 1 Spread; 03-13-2015 at 02:17 PM.

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    I'll take the bet that you bust yourself when you go back to Vegas. If your going to lose, you may as well go out with a little flair and make it look good right? There's always the hotline... 1-800-GET-HELP.
    Last edited by Blitzkrieg; 03-13-2015 at 02:26 PM.

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    Great post. Thanks for sharing. You didn't mention - do you drink when you play? If you do, stop. It may be the one simple thing you can do that will keep you from over-betting and chasing. Just a little loss of inhibition can cost you dearly.

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    Senior Member Jabberwocky's Avatar
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    A little loss of inhibition led to my marriage fiasco. Lol.

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    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    Oysters did it for me.
    Play within your bankroll, pick your games with care and learn everything you can about the game. The winning will come. It has to. It's in the cards. -- Bryce Carlson

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    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    20 to 1
    I hope you win and never look back. That being said, such overbetting relative to your bankroll hasn't worked for me in the past. It's a bitter pill to learn by experience, but sometimes that's the only way considering one's particular make-up and personality. I'd reduce by ROR if I were you, but I do understand the attraction toward winning it big and fast. It can happen. It is gambling. Love for action and dreams of hitting it big feed a compulsion that is very hard to break with logic and discipline. If you do win big this next trip, which I sincerely hope you do, you still must face this compulsion the rest of your life. It almost certainly will catch up with you. But like I said before, I hope it never does. Yours truly, Aslan

    PS-- The very best poker players can go "all in" without a bit of hesitation or fear whatsoever.

    PSS-- I know one of the greatest poker players who ever graced the streets of Las Vegas and he's broke.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

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    It's too bad you weren't properly educated to how blackjack works and money management. It seems you dont know how the market works either. Buy hold and accumulate great companies, you can't time the market regardless of all the bullshit you read online. Anything can happen in the short run regardless of your trading/investing strategy, but when investing in solid fundamentally sound companies, it has a 100% correlation of success in the long run.

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    Cannot agree more,. That is the basic strategy of investing. Buy the CoKe, P&G, GIS...... it pays dividend higher than the CD in the bank plus long term principle appreciation with tract record. Stick to the basic strategy of bj inside out. never second guess it. I was playing DD in MGM chain store, I hit 15,16 vs dealer's 10 even when the TC was high, had a large bet up front, I was frequently pleasantly surprised getting a small card with a happy ending. When the count is high, chance is, the dealer's hole card is likely a 10, of course, I am dead anyway, might as well to try my luck, just in case the dealer has a small card in the hole, I take the small card first instead of dealer getting it.(I used reko)
    Last edited by ellenc; 03-15-2015 at 06:12 PM.

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