2 Systems 2 Partners 1 Table

[20 to 1 Spread]

Thoughts on one person counting the deck with Hi-Lo and the other counts the Lucky Lucky side bet. we mimic each other's bet sizing ratio. Perhaps lower my actual BJ bet size and ratio and hedge it with the LL sidebet? Thus less often I'll be betting black action and spreading it across. Also on the times where I play two hands at the table in +TC, I can perhaps do it in -TC (at min spread) and play two big hands of LL. Is this too +EV and blatantly obvious? My store has seen me blast like $300-600 at their $10-500 table on several occasions already. two hands of $20 BJ and two side bets of $30-50 would look less threatening than a big bet on BJ right?

Is it worth the trouble, the potential heat of two reg friends at the same table, etc for the opportunity of EV from LL sidebet?

[Exoter175]

If the EITS and/or floor had even half a pulse, they'd nail you and your partner/s fairly quickly with this.

[Three]

Most counts correlate pretty good with this side bet. I am not sure how much you would gain with the special count for the side bet. Ace neutral counts are stronger for the side bet so maybe HILO would benefit more than others from the side count.

[20 to 1 Spread]

Now this is just in theory as my friend is practicing his dedicated count for the LL, just wanted to grab some thoughts before we execute this. Oh does anyone know if Vegas has LL over there? I don't recall (been a year).

@KJ - thanks for the response. While that is very true, which is why I mentioned it more as of a hedge and converting my EV from the BJ into the sidebet, I felt like it would actually reduce heat because you have less chances of black action and what not. Gosh time to think this through.. Although when you hit it on LL they have to announce it to pit.

What do you think under the situation IF you were a local reg and could tombstone for like 4-5 hours without too much. Do you think this situation of hedging your main game EV into sidebet? Or just make life simple and just play solid BJ

[muckz]

The OP is talking about LUCKY LUCKY not lucky ladies. No bj counts correlate well with this as the 10's are good when removed.

[NotEnoughHeat]

The OP is talking about LUCKY LUCKY not lucky ladies. No bj counts correlate well with this as the 10's are good when removed.

thanks for pointing it out. Everyone was talking about LL which can also stand for lucky ladies. The fact that the OP has previously talked about Lucky Ladies adds to the confusion.

[NotEnoughHeat]

Although this advice was originally meant for a Lucky Ladies player, I'm sure it can apply to Lucky Lucky. Something to consider is the volatility you are adding to your game by incorporating a side bet (which usually have high variance along with their EV potential). Making your game more reliant on the side bet might give you more EV but you need to consider the variance trade off. I don't know the numbers for this side bet, but finding out the SD/variance for it and the affect on SCORE is something worth knowing before you decide to try this.

[Three]

What do you think under the situation IF you were a local reg and could tombstone for like 4-5 hours without too much. Do you think this situation of hedging your main game EV into sidebet? Or just make life simple and just play solid BJ

I am not sure you are using words that communicate your thoughts well. I am guessing tombstone means to camp. Hedging usually infers winning while you lose your other bet.If you win lucky ladies you most likely win your BJ bet since you have a 20. If you lose you don't have a 20 and at that count the dealer is pretty likely to have one. Risk aversion between two bets is usually designed to not lose both bets. That is not going to happen too often with Lucky Ladies.

Do you think this situation of hedging your main game EV into sidebet? Or just make life simple and just play solid BJ

I am not sure what you mean by hedging here but I will try to give my opinion. This is a bet with high EV rarely made that correlates to your main bet. It is like insurance in that way. Like insurance when you make the bet can be used to detect you. You should treat it in that same manner. Some places the heat is too high and you should just avoid the bet. Other places the heat is there but not as high and a RA index a little higher tan the EV maximizing index may be the best course of action. Other places may have no heat associated with the side bet and using the EV maximizing index is fine.It is always a good idea to have longevity as part of your game plan unless your game plan is to slash and burn taking as much as you can as fast as you can. I am not familiar with that way of play so I will let others tat use it comment on it if they chose to.

[20 to 1 Spread]

sorry for confusion, I'm talking about lucky lucky, with the 678 and 7s. I'm pretty torn about this, with another counter dedicated to the side game, EV would skyrocket (or I could just have a better brain and track both I guess). another reason why I'm really hung up on this is because I feel like this is an opportunity to reduce your big bets in the main game (less black action) and put that in the sidebet of LL. as others have mentioned some places aren't going to be fooled by this, perhaps it could make things even worse for me. diverging and only playing LL when its good would be more suspicious than just spreading which is logical. just trying to figure out another way to get more +EV while weighing all the options.

[Three]

Sorry, LL is generally lucky ladies around here. Never heard of LL for lucky lucky. You have LL9 and LL10 describing different pay tables for the lucky lady side bet. You might want to just say lucky lucky to avoid the confusion.

[moo321]

Yeah, this is a viable strategy.

[marriedputter]

I am not sure you are using words that communicate your thoughts well. I am guessing tombstone means to camp.

Snyder defined this term in his "Big Book of Blackjack." A "Tombstone" is somebody that goes to a table and plays in the same spot at the same table for hours on end. This is a term supposedly used by the pit and/or surveillance. I personally though have never heard the term used outside of the book.