Terminology: Risk of ruin

**DSchles** · 02-22-2015, 08:31 AM

See my comments above. And my quick response to your well-stated post is: then let the OP ask one or more follow-up questions, if he seeks further information than what is provided in the answer to the original question (assuming that answer is correct and sufficient, to begin with). When I suspect someone may have more questions to ask, after I answer the question he has posed, I often write: "Write back with more questions." What I don't do is post everything I know on the topic, when that isn't what was asked. And, for my money, that's what happens much too frequently on this and other sites.

I'm not trying to stifle free speech or the flow of information. I'm trying to keep every thread from being 50 posts, when, clearly that is far from necessary.

Don

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by DSchles

See my comments above. And my quick response to your well-stated post is: then let the OP ask one or more follow-up questions, if he seeks further information than what is provided in the answer to the original question (assuming that answer is correct and sufficient, to begin with). When I suspect someone may have more questions to ask, after I answer the question he has posed, I often write: "Write back with more questions." What I don't do is post everything I know on the topic, when that isn't what was asked. And, for my money, that's what happens much too frequently on this and other sites.

I'm not trying to stifle free speech or the flow of information. I'm trying to keep every thread from being 50 posts, when, clearly that is far from necessary.

Don

I understand your pain and your perspective as coming from a highly disciplined mind and highly professional point of view.

**NotEnoughHeat** · 02-22-2015, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Unless stated otherwise, ROR means the probability that you will lose your entire bankroll. Period. No time limit attached to it, and no goal to reach before it happens. In essence, it means the chance of losing your entire stake before you win, well, all the money in the world. :-)

Don

Thanks Don. That's what I had in mind when I typed out B. I'm sure I didn't give it the most accurate description.

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 10:51 AM

Look at the bright side. Now we are beginning to act like a family.

I come from a large family and I know what I am talking about. Dysfunction and family go hand in hand; it's the grating up against each other (diamonds in the rough) that turns us all into smooth, attractive gems.

Don's opinion is just that, Don's opinion, and everyone else has their own opinions. So long as other members continue to use the board as best serves their own needs and their desire to contribute, all is well. Sorry, Norm, you're the single parent in this single parent household. You set the rules the members must follow. But in this thread I see nothing more than an honest expression of feelings and opinions, plus a willingness to be unoffensive even if it means limiting one's own participation. I don't think Don or KJ or anyone else wants to operate outside the forum rules and framework even if it means some inconvenience. We have a good thing going here, even if it does not operate in our own opinion of how it should. I'd wager to say it is the best blackjack board ever. I hope we can all continue to learn from each other. Less participation by either Don or KJ would be tragic.

Maybe a solution to the problem would be this: whenever a post seems to beg a comment that is somewhat off the track, we should copy the post and initiate a new thread to address the new thought. In that way, we will not lose the benefit of the added thought and we will not be offensive to anyone wishing to keep the subject pure and simple.

I know that I am one of the biggest offenders in this regard, but now I will be on my guard.

I can understand the benefit of Don's comment when it comes to using the board as a tool to research a particular issue. No one wants to wade through a morass of loosely related posts to find what he is looking for.

Just my two cents.

**DSchles** · 02-22-2015, 11:00 AM

Here's what both of you simply don't understand. The ROR chapter in my book is 39 pages long. It is filled with all sorts of complex formulas, charts, tables, and has the most complete treatment of the subject that can be found in any blackjack book. But, when the question was asked, I neither told the OP to go read the chapter, nor did I spout all sorts of additional information -- which, clearly, I could have -- to show how much I know about the topic. I JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED! And, just now, the OP wrote to say that yes, this was exactly what he had in mind when he asked his question. END OF STORY (or so one would think).

Or, should I now write about double-barrier formulas, goal-reaching formulas, and the million other things in the chapter, just to show how smart I am? The problem with 90% of all the threads on this and other boards is that no one knows when to stop.

Don

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Here's what both of you simply don't understand. The ROR chapter in my book is 39 pages long. It is filled with all sorts of complex formulas, charts, tables, and has the most complete treatment of the subject that can be found in any blackjack book. But, when the question was asked, I neither told the OP to go read the chapter, nor did I spout all sorts of additional information -- which, clearly, I could have -- to show how much I know about the topic. I JUST ANSWERED THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED! And, just now, the OP wrote to say that yes, this was exactly what he had in mind when he asked his question. END OF STORY (or so one would think).

Or, should I now write about double-barrier formulas, goal-reaching formulas, and the million other things in the chapter, just to show how smart I am? The problem with 90% of all the threads on this and other boards is that no one knows when to stop.

Don

If you're addressing me, perhaps you missed my comment:

Maybe a solution to the problem would be this: whenever a post seems to beg a comment that is somewhat off the track, we should copy the post and initiate a new thread to address the new thought. In that way, we will not lose the benefit of the added thought and we will not be offensive to anyone wishing to keep the subject pure and simple.

If this does not address your concern, and mine and KJ's as well, please tell me where I'm going wrong. I personally benefit from everything KJ says. The only issue seems to be "where and in what context it is said." I am trying to find a solution rather than adopt a "keep one's mouth shut" policy. Please be patient with me. My intentions are peaceful and not argumentative.

**marriedputter** · 02-22-2015, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

True, you didn't reference your book in this particular case. But don't hurt your arm patting yourself on the back as you very often do just that. Norman too references his book frequently. Nothing wrong with that.

I take offense to your comment about trying to show how smart one is. I don't see where anyone did that. You should be familiar enough with my postings on both sites, to know that I never do that. I am pretty humble and don't think I am smarter than anyone on any site. Things aren't a pissing contest to me. My objective is about learning and sharing thoughts and experiences that may benefit others. I thought that is what the site was all about.

Don, I am with KJ on this one. I personally have never addressed you directly with a question or comment because I have seen how you address others, and I do not find it to be favorable. I haven't posted as much as others but always place close attention whenever you post something as I know that your knowledge in this arena is incredible. I have to say though that if I wanted to address someone on this board with a question/comment, it probably wouldn't be you. You remind me of the teachers that I had in high school that made their students NOT want to ask questions because their questions or comments were always dumb in the eyes of the teacher. But, that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong.
So what if the topic strays slightly from the main point? It's usually still pretty much on point from what I have observed. Making the comment about others diverting it to what they ate seems like such a deliberate exaggeration.

**ohbehave** · 02-22-2015, 06:54 PM

Plain and simple... We like talking about blackjack and AP related topics. Thats why we're here. So someone makes a post and then we talk about all the stuff we've already talked about 1000 times... because we like to.

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

Here's how I do things: beginning of every year, I reset my bankroll to a certain amount. Playing off this bankroll I have a relatively small RoR. Not less than 1% like most professional players will tell you. It's actually hard to come up with a number because I play such a variety of games, conditions and spreads. Some games I am playing with different RoR than others. I have no idea how to put it all together and come up with a total RoR for all my play.

Here is the actual definition of your BR:

Your BR is how much of your net wealth you are willing to lose before abandoning the idea of AP blackjack.

**Three** · 02-22-2015, 07:46 PM

Oh yeah. Don, I had eggs sunny side up on wheat toast, pancakes, bacon and hash browns for brunch. Someone had to say it.

**Aslan** · 02-22-2015, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by ohbehave

Plain and simple... We like talking about blackjack and AP related topics. Thats why we're here. So someone makes a post and then we talk about all the stuff we've already talked about 1000 times... because we like to.

See General Blackjack Forum, ROR and Bankroll: A General Discussion Thread.

**DSchles** · 02-23-2015, 11:51 AM

You're entitled to your opinion, but you couldn't possibly be more wrong. In the past 20 years or so, there isn't a person on the face of the earth who has posted more information or responded to more forum, online, questions than I have. And, 95% of the time, those answers are complete and gracious. As always, the ones where I lose patience with what I perceive to be a problem on the part of the poster are the ones you choose to highlight. They are the exception and not the rule. Show me a teacher who has plied his craft for, oh, close to 50 years, and hasn't occasionally lost his patience, and I'll show you, well, a saint.

And you're wrong about being afraid to ask me a question. If you do, I'll answer you courteously, as I am here. If you ask for further clarification, I'll furnish that, too. But, if you say that I don't know what I'm talking about, I might just respond by writing, "so why did you ask me in the first place?" or "well, clearly, you don't need my help, so I'm done here." We all have limited amounts of time to devote to this board, this hobby, and others. Mine may be somewhat more limited than someone else's. That doesn't make me a bad person!

Don

P.S. I have been fortunate enough in my lifetime to have one multiple teaching awards and acclaim, and I don't ever remember, in my entire lifetime, telling any student that he/she had asked a dumb question.