Table Superstition

[MercySakesAlive]

I am of the opinion that however someone at the table chooses to play their hand has no effect on my wins and losses in the long run.

But with this opinion, I am in a tiny minority it would seem.

I constantly hear things like "I was playing at this one table and this guy was splitting tens so I just got up and left." or "Never hit a such-and-such hand, you'll just wind up taking the dealer's bust card."

In my mind, if a guy wants to DD on a 7 or hit a 16 v 6, then in the long run it doesn't have any effect on what the next card is going to be.

Is there any credence to this popular conception that a bad player can cause the table to lose in the long run?

[Norm]

There are other players at the table?

[hitthat16]

There are other players at the table?

This should be recognized as the official blackjack AP motto.

[Aslan]

This should be recognized as the official blackjack AP motto.

Almost. But I do not like to play at a full table, so I am conscious of how many others are at the table. The other point is, some ploppies are just so distracting that I do not enjoy playing their table. They can be obnoxious, constantly hitting on the dealer, disgustingly drunk, smoking gross cigars (I like a good cigar), or exhibit other traits that I'd rather not be in the company of, especially hostile or angry behavior. Other than that, "What other players?"

[marriedputter]

Almost. But I do not like to play at a full table, so I am conscious of how many others are at the table. The other point is, some ploppies are just so distracting that I do not enjoy playing their table. They can be obnoxious, constantly hitting on the dealer, disgustingly drunk, smoking gross cigars (I like a good cigar), or exhibit other traits that I'd rather not be in the company of, especially hostile or angry behavior. Other than that, "What other players?"

No kidding. I was playing the other night and the players at the table behind me were yelling constantly. It was so bad that I could not hear when the dealer spoke to me.

The worst ploppies of all though are the slooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww players!

[Aslan]

No kidding. I was playing the other night and the players at the table behind me were yelling constantly. It was so bad that I could not hear when the dealer spoke to me.

The worst ploppies of all though are the slooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww players!

Ploppy [Thought processes]: "What should I do? The dealer has a 5 up and all I have is a 13, so the dealer has me beat if he has a 10 hole card, so should I hit? Maybe, I should double down, because I don't see any 7s or 8s. What do I do? I'd ask the guy next to me but he seems irritated with me. I'll hit it." [Beginning to scratch for a card]

marriedputter [Putting his hand out to stop the ploppy]: "Don't hit that! Stay! Let the dealer bust!"

[marriedputter]

marriedputter [Putting his hand out to stop the ploppy]: "Don't hit that! Stay! Let the dealer bust!"

I'm confused here. Can't tell if you're mocking me or not.

[Sharky]

...It was so bad that I could not hear when the dealer spoke to me...

why do you feel a need to speak to them....i just wish most of them would shut the f up and deal the cards

[marriedputter]

why do you feel a need to speak to them....i just wish most of them would shut the f up and deal the cards

Wow, that's a rather callous statement there, wouldn't you say "Sharky?"

I was merely trying to give an idea of the noise level by comparing it to the voices of those around me so as to put you in the scene. I was not trying to proclaim that talking to the dealers was of any great importance. Geeezzz...

But, since you asked, and even though your question may have been meant to be rhetorical, I'll give you my answer anyway. I DO just happen to think that talking to the dealers has value.

In my particular situation, I do not have 50 casinos that I can frequent. I have only a handful due to my geographical disadvantage. Hit and run and anonymity are not a possibility for me. Therefore, every dealer, pit boss, and even casino host at each location knows my name, and knows it well. I approached a host that I had never seen before at a rather large casino. He said "what can I do for you Mr. ******." This, among many other certain situations, has me suspicious that they may know that I am counting. But I have NEVER gotten the tap regardless of long hours of play and a fairly wide bet spread. I also get plenty of comps for hotels, food, and gasoline. Why? I can't know for sure. My records over the years testify to my abilities. So I know that their reason for leaving me alone is not due to a lack of ability.

I think the fact that I am such a nice guy and that I NEVER get greedy has a lot to do with it (of course ratholing doesn't hurt). Why talk to dealers? Because they're not "dealing machines" as you appear to be characterizing them. They're human beings that are just trying to make a living. I memorize the dealers names, their kids names, and even their pet names so that I can ask about them the next time I come in. They know my name so why not use theirs? People typically love talking about their families. There is one dealer who loves guitars and so I get him talking about that. I figure out what they like to talk about and I get them talking. This often takes their focus away from the fact that I just made a rather high bet. I have gotten away with them not uttering "cheques play" because I had them in the middle of a conversation that they wanted so desperately to finish. Due to the math involved, I do not like to tip. So why not give them pleasant conversation in exchange for good treatment? No loss of EV there.

So for me, the fact that they are human beings is a reason to talk to them. But if you need a selfish reason, getting them to talk also causes them to make more mistakes as well because they are not able to multitask as well as counters are. I personally do not do this unless the dealer is rude, but it is amazing how many mistakes they make when they are distracted with conversation.

So does this answer satisfy you or were you just making a smug remark?

[Sharky]

nah...i'm the invisible man, or shark...don't want to give anyone anything to remember me by...of course, this idle chit chat takes away from my hph...so, frankly, and don't take this personal, but next to a chatty dealer, your type is the exact i prefer not to play with...and for everyone who thinks being 'chummy' with some pit buys them all this longevity, think again, as with any business there are checks and balances in place to prevent such actions

good luck

Shary

[SiMi]

Hi, marriedputter!

I enjoyed reading your explanation about talking to Dealers. I have come to believe that, since Casinos are now located all over the place, there are a lot of AP BJ players in the world who do not have scores of Casinos to 'hit and run' within easy reach. These players may have only 1-3 Casinos in their area and they quickly realize their situation requires a different style of play or they will be barred from any action in their area. (I think some authors might refer to such people as "recreational players" but I do not believe that term is apt in many of these cases.)

I suspect that many of these players are "part-time professional players (PTPP)" and they cannot, as a practical matter, push every advantage to the max, treat the Casino staff as robots and fail to blend in with the ploppies if they hope to survive. "Longevity" to such players is measured in YEARS rather than hours or minutes. Much of the advice one reads about AP Blackjack seems to ignore these players.

Many of the posts here seem to come at every topic from only one point of view, usually that of a full-time player who is not interested in developing a style of play that permits YEARS of hassle-free, advantage play at a few places. It's a tricky art and seems to be under-recognized. I've often thought it would help if the posters here would clarify that they are in this PTPP category.

It seems that when a 'hit and run' player meets a PTPP, it's like two ships passing in the night...

Chat 'em up if it helps!
SiMi

[MercySakesAlive]

There are other players at the table?

ah jeez, that totally went over my head. ha!

[MercySakesAlive]

Either way. 2 players or 6 players. In my thinking, what the other guy does has no effect on my success in the long run.