Apology to the Players

[DiceDealer]

I have been lurking here for a few months and just started posting a few weeks ago. Something that I wanted to make a note of was all the hatred I see that people have for the dealers. It really makes me sad to see, but from what I understand there are plenty of dealers who leave a bad taste in someones mouth and this is coming from AP's not your usual gambler who thinks that we actually have control over the cards. This is purely dealers with ****ty attitudes.

You are right to focus on bankroll and game conditions: these are fundamental aspects of winning.

You seem to have an analytical attitude, so you have a better chance than most of putting together a disciplined, lucrative game.

Looking back at my own preparation, I wish I had foreseen the psychological load this venture puts on you. It's not just about handling the losses and keeping your hands off the bankroll after the wins, or even the distractions of pit scrutiny. It's the sitting and sitting, listening to idiots bellow in your ear or being scraped repeatedly by drunks high-fiving across your face. It's the smell of your fellow patrons, from the dragon breath of the smokers to the interesting whiff of ordure about some of the others. Endless fills, buy-ins and colorings-up, dealers who would rather flirt with players and pit bosses than deal, players who would rather text or flirt with the dealers than play, hours and hours of nodding at utterly incomprehensible comments from Asian ploppies, and boobs and drunks everywhere. That stupid, grating tune from a particular slot machine that is near the pit in every casino. And it's not the stupidity, misery, or distraction of all this that's the real problem, although I'll admit the smell gets me down - how is it that so many people go around in public actually smelling like ****? It's the cumulative waste of energy and, far more important, time which all these distractions constitute.

Wanna hit that soft 18 against the dealer's 9? Watch the dealer roll her eyes with undisguised hatred. Ignore the disdain, because it's not the problem: the dealer is merely a contemptible POS who should be fired, and there plenty of those. It's the waste of your time and energy, having to tap the felt four times and look her straight in the eye. Similar is the dealer who asks all hot female customers walking past the table if they could show ID, because they "sure don't look 21," and then is visibly annoyed because he didn't see your repeated calls for a hit and thinks you're wasting time. Dealers will stop dealing to catch up with their friends at the table. At tables with sidebets, a small chunk of every hour will be spent listening to the Nth explanation of a particular sucker sidebet to a patron who can't read the odds written on the felt in front of her, or the (N+1)st lecture from a dealer that "you should play your hands consistently - pick a way to play that 15 against a 10, and stick with it."

There are countless examples that I could quote but this one really stands out. I understand that as a dealer I have a magnitude of whiny undesirables to deal with on a daily basis (dice players are probably worse than BJ players) but you know what? It's our job to run the game, it's our job to help players if they want it when making a decision or when learning how to play the game. As a dealer and a player sometimes we have to deal with an atmosphere that leaves something to be desired; because the fact is that without all the happy sounds and flashing lights and top 40 playing on repeat, casino's would appear to be really depressing places. At a certain point you drown out all the propaganda a realize that it IS a depressing place. But you and I are both in the casino to make money.


I understand as a dealer why people hate dealers with ****ty attitudes. As a dealer nothing makes me more upset than a dealer who acts like they don't want to be there or that the money in the rack belongs to us, it doesn't. The only money on the table that is ours is in the little box on the side and a holier-than-thou attitude leaves that box pretty empty. As a dealer I understand that we serve double duty, to protect the integrity of the house and to provide a game and service to the players. Personally I really hate split tokes, it's like a welfare system. Lazy dealers with bad outlooks are sucking up the money that I hustle to make. There are plenty of days that I don't want to be at work but I like money. I want you to pay me, and my attitude reflects that. Last night I tapped someone out on the EO and as soon as I sat down to the game the gentleman in the third spot says,"Thank god, that last guy thinks that money is his." Sure as hell an hour later I put three hundred in that toke box.

I don't hate players (I hate fleas and degenerates, they don't do anything beneficial for anyone but they aren't gonna know that), you are critical for my continued employment. I hate dead games and I hate dealers on dead games that are flagging down waitresses to flirt with instead of trying to get a player. Unfortunately guys, this problem isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Sometimes everyone has a bad day and they need to go home and have a drink but those aren't the people I am talking about.

On behalf of every jack off dealer that you have encountered, I would like to extend an apology. They aren't helping anyone on either side of the table.

[White Guy]

I understand that dealers are just doing there job but there is one thing I hate that I can barely bite my toungue about.

It is dealers who act like they did somehow control the cards when someone wins but when someone loses they are constantly saying how they have no control. Trashy IMO.

I realize it's all about getting more tips but I think a general hey I am providing a service such as a bus boy or valet is more appropriate than acting like they "helped" the players.

[Goatlife]

I thought that was a really good post dice. Its nice to have you hear because we get to hear it from the dealers side. You seem like a fine dealer and I would be lucky to play at a table with you. On another note, I hate when a dealer tells me how to play. I remember playing a shoe where the count tanked and I was flatbetting and won like 10 hands in a row and the dealers said you need to press. I said nah Im fine, he then stoped dealing for about 5 mins and told me im never going to win any real money and that i need to press my bet. I said Im ok again respectfully and that I do this for fun and money is a secondary object as I know im going to lose in the long run so I better have fun doing it. 5 hands latter I kept winning and he stopped and gave me the same speech. I then proceeded to color up. (I only stayed this long is because this annoying dealer cut skinney)

[Anton Chigurh]

This is a big topic, because it's also about the lack of decent service jobs in an an increasingly bureaucratic economy, where everyone's time is scrutinized and limited by MBAs. There used to be far more creative work for people with skills in service jobs, but bean counters and micromanagement are always fond of scheduling, rule-making, and the hiring of ever more bean counters and managers. So being a dealer can't be fun.

Most dealers, like 99.9% of the population, believe in voodoo, and so it's inevitable that most will blame the player who hits 13 against 5 for my busting both my stiffs on 2nd base. Even though it's unprofessional to apologize to one player for the poor play of another - an act, by the way, which creates fertile soil for the belief that the same will be said of me after I have left the table - it's understandable, given what nearly everyone believes, though totally without foundation.

And 50% of the dealers are less intelligent than the average person, which creates the same dismal picture for table games as it does in business, law, medicine, education, and architecture - ever noticed how awful half of building designs are?

So I'm uncomfortable with one dealer apologizing for the behavior of the worst of the lot, but it's nice of you to make the gesture.

I can think of around 10-15 dealers I'm always glad to see. Most of them never comment on anyone's plays - two, perhaps three of these people are current/former APs, so no voodoo beliefs - but there are a few who I like, and think are very good, who occasionally let slip "I wish he hadn't split those 6s" but are still great dealers. It is futile to hope for more than a tiny percentage of vooodoo-free dealers, since such people are so rare in the general population, but I don't think that's the essential characteristic of a good dealer. I think it's about dealing the hands at a decent pace, being relaxed, and creating an atmosphere that this is a game, not some uptight team sport where a moral is to be found in every dealer bust card taken.

When I was a kid, there was a great waiter who was skilled, intelligent, unobtrusive, and worth 5x whatever the restaurant was paying him. There are fewer and fewer roles for such people these days, with people skills and no desire to be managers, screenwriters, or whatever else we worship in lieu of customer-facing work these days. I wonder what people like him do for a living now?

[Norm]

There are dealers?

Sorry, I know that it can make one feel better to classify dealers and players and to vent against such. If this is for humor value, go for it. If this actually takes an emotional toll, it is wasted time, effort, strength, and a distraction. We need to track the behavior of dealers. We can use other players as a part of cover. But, to me, they are simply parts of a video game. You cannot hate a figure in a video game – I hope.

Having said that, I will say that there are some dealers, and service employees in general, that put effort into ensuring that the customer has a good experience. Such are a breath of fresh air and deserve both tips and kind words.

[sagefr0g]

there are great dealers and there are really, really bad dealers. it mainly has to do with how fast they deal and well maybe just me i like it when they keep their mouth shut or rarely speak. if they can talk and still keep the game moving fast, then the talk isn't much of a problem.

[Anton Chigurh]

There are dealers?

There is plenty of good and bad customer service. The difference between a poor concierge - Fawlty Towers is hardly an exaggeration in some cases - and a poor dealer, is that a bad front-desk man, who thinks his business would run swimmingly if he could just get rid of all the pesky customers, will only be a problem for 2-3 minutes at a time. A bad dealer can be a problem for half an hour at a time.

[Anton Chigurh]

Sorry, I know that it can make one feel better to classify dealers and players and to vent against such. ... You cannot hate a figure in a video game – I hope.

My bad.

H17 is okay. It isn't real. Why get worked up over shallow penetration.

Life is beautiful. People are wonderful. Think only positive thoughts. After all, once one starts using adjectives and nouns, hurtful emotions might be had.

[Norm]

My bad.

H17 is okay. It isn't real. Why get worked up over shallow penetration.

Life is beautiful. People are wonderful. Think only positive thoughts. After all, once one starts using adjectives and nouns, hurtful emotions might be had.

I'm not talking about damage to a video game figure. I'm talking about an APs energy. Speed is a main focus for me. But, that isn't just hands/hour, but also hours played/day. If you spend effort fuming about players and dealers, it can decrease your own energy. I'm not going Zen here. I'm simply saying that you have less energy when you feel crappy. If you let other people bother you, you are more likely to leak energy. This has nothing to do with Maslow-like self-actualization seminars, or Harris I’m OK, You’re OK crap. I’m just saying that negative feelings tend to be tiring on humans.

[zerg]

Good post dice! Tipping is always an interesting subject, and we rarely hear the dealer's side here. After tipping way too much last year (about 9% of my winnings), this year I made a bet with my friend. He wins if I tip over $1000 on the year, I win if I tip under $1000. Since I now have a tip "budget" it has been interesting. If a dealer gives me any reason to stiff them I am very happy to do it. Bad attitude is at the top of my list of reasons to stiff, and there is plenty to go around. There are some dealers I play frequently and stiff (that I use to tip.) A dealer I am currently thinking of would barely acknowledge my tips, mustering a thank you maybe half the time. Now that I stiff her, we seem to get along better. Before she considered me a bad tipper but couldn't say anything. Now she can openly complain about me to her floor person, other dealers, and other players. When I use to tip her, I was unhappy tipping a dealer with a lousy attitude (but felt obligated.) Now she gets to complain, I get to keep my money and neither of us are walking on eggshells. I honestly think we are both happier. Since I now stiff 4 out of 5 dealers, when I do tip it works out well. It is an amount I am ok with from an EV perspective, and looks like a "good" tip to the nice dealers.

[DiceDealer]

I laugh at dealers that believe in voodoo. It's all mathematics. Every game in the casino. The casino is a service / entertainment industry. While the market I am in I am not really happy here and I think that I could do better somewhere else with more growth potential (I really don't want to deal forever) it doesn't mean that I show up to work with a bad attitude. There are a few dealers in the craps pit that I laugh at because they think that since they ONLY deal dice (as they have done forever and they still SUCK at that game) their **** doesn't stink. I hate working on a dice crew with them. On the other side of the coin there is a guy who came out of the last dice class who has the worst hands in the world and has some trouble with the payouts but he has the best attitude about dealing that I have seen. He listens to the box man and the other dealers that can help him get better and now he's not too bad of a dealer in the sense of dealing the game but his attitude makes him a terrific dealer in my opinion. The suits keep putting him in the craps pit because of it. Another guy same story but worst attitude. He's had dice for 8 months and he has been scheduled on a game maybe once.

@Zerg - I don't have issues with people that stiff *****y dealers, in fact I hope that they get so fed up with them that they file a complaint with management and get those free loaders outta the casino. Put someone there who wants to hustle. I would think that somewhere between 2%-5% depending. 9% is very high, that would make me real happy but if you won a thousand change and dropped us 25-50 that would be a real appreciated gesture. Or maybe if you are playing $25 dollar game and you got a max bet out putting the dealer on the hand for a nickel a couple of times is fine also. That way you can risk less and the dealers still get more. That's a win-win as far as I see.

Being a "good" dealer is a very relative term because the dealer needs to be receptive to each individual player to be good to them. Some players don't want you to talk to them while they play other than announce point totals, which I can understand (mostly in High Limit) but during the shuffle is always a good time to chat. There is nothing pertinent going on and it's a good opportunity to get to know one another. Since I slap jack mostly in High Limit it's easier to engage guests since you only have one or two. Yeah, somedays I act like the money is mine (don't know why) and somedays I can be a tool bag (no one is perfect) but more often than not I want to make money. I was in sales for a number of years and the easiest way to get a raise was to go get one. I think that the same applies here.

@norm - I think you're right about the energy thing.

Personally one other thing that chaps my ass is when a dealer criticizes a players play. If you ask me what the BS move is, I will tell you. I don't twist anyone's arm to do a certain thing. I really like new players but I think that sometimes they get driven away by the "old pros". Most of the new players just want to have fun, and I want to entertain them. One of my favorite nights was when I had a bachelorette party at my table and we karaoked some top 40 songs. Had a great time.

I really like the feedback from real players.

[Anton Chigurh]

If you spend effort fuming about players and dealers, it can decrease your own energy. ... If you let other people bother you, you are more likely to leak energy.

Straight-up, I think a blackjack board is an appropriate place to discuss/classify irritating dealers.

Waste of energy it may be, but irritating people are irritating, and I think it helps to be able to vent, put my mind in order, and maybe help others do the same.

I am mystified by your original remarks. If you have arrived at a higher place of detachment than some of us, then more power to you. But when you tell me that humor about it is okay, while implicitly categorizing any other discussion of the issue as self-destructive whining, then I have to ask: Who do you think you are?

I don't care for your tone. Retreat back under your "everyone is okay, everyone has something to offer, and we should all be good to each other here" mantra, but, essentially, your remarks on this thread are far from an example of being good to others. Nor are they a shining example of your stated humility, your striving to always remember that we all have much to learn.

[zengrifter]

User is banned, content deleted.