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Thread: Count doesn't matter

  1. #40


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    Quote Originally Posted by metronome View Post
    Geez Norm, i can finally stop holding my breath
    Hey now, I'm convinced! This guy has shown compelling evidence to support his claim, I'm a believer!

  2. #41
    Senior Member bigplayer's Avatar
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    You've played more than anyone here and don't believe in math. That makes you a degenerate gambler and an ideal casino customer. Congratulations!

  3. #42
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    It's OK to criticize counting. But, non-math/streak/flow stuff is another thing. Thread moved to Disadvantage forum.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #43


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    Quote Originally Posted by grapedrink View Post
    I'm very well aware of play deviations for hi opt 2 and been using a good chunk of the Ill 18 outside of some of the major red flag ones. The ones I don't tend to do is surrender my 14, 15 and 16. Most of the time I'll hit but half the time I'll surrender the 15 16 with a big bet. I'm a pretty solid player; I don't think anyone who observed me play would ever label me a plop.
    Everyone is going to label you as a plop if you're not using surrender properly (you're using surrender ploperly). It's your biggest ally. You're throwing away tons of money just in not using surrender properly, not to mention many other indices.

  5. #44


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    Update. I've played about 70 hours over the last week at a couple different casinos. Nice results overall weird ending that I can't decipher though. It ended really oddly, potentially backed off, but I'm not sure.

    So I've decided to refine my game a little more after reading many helpful posts. I'm still using ho2 count for about 75% of my decisions, and surrendering my 16s more often. I'm still not ramping bets when the shoes are obviously awful and the count is high (maybe around 10-15% of the time), and I'm betting more units on negative count shoes when it's going good.

    Out of I think 6 different visits: I lost a lot on one day (-$5000. My god, super depressing), close to even on another (i think it went from +500 to -$1000 to +2000 to -$1500 to -$300 over the course of maybe 3 hours), and +$19,000 on the other 3 or 4 sessions. My brain is kind of a blur thinking about it.

    Anyway, on to the possible back off on my last visit. So I was playing for a long time, total played was around 30 hours straight on the $25 tables. Somewhere around the 15th hour I had to take a dump because the food I ordered contained some peppers that I requested be taken out, but of course they didn't. I have a sensitive stomach. Anyway, I was in the middle of a great stretch at the table, dealers were just busting everything for an hour or so. I held it as long as I could, and ran as fast as I could to the bathroom, but halfway there it was already late. So saving the details, my underpants got a bit stained to say the least. Anyway, I cleaned up as best I could, and then went back to the tables. I was up at this point close to $4000 because that table was just awesome, and I was pressing. I lost about $500 over the course of the next 6 hours or so. And then around the 26th hour or so this ***** of a woman and her friend sit down next to me, and within maybe 5 minutes starts complaining about some smell. I hope she's not talking about me, but I say to the effect that there's a lot of smokers in the casino. Table kind of sucks and I move to another table. A few hours later, I'm going through a pretty good run with another guy at the table. I recover the amount I gave back and add an additional $1000 when the same woman walks over to play at the table and says the bottom of my pants are wet and gives me a scrunched face. I'm not sure why she made a point to say that out loud, but she then calls over the pit boss to complain about me right in front of me saying that I smell and soiled myself. Didn't say two words to this bat and she's ruining my mood and the good vibes at the table. Pretty much the rudest person I've ever experienced at a casino. Anyway I play for another 10 minutes winning another $200 before getting a tap on the shoulder. Standing there are the pit boss's bosses. I panic in my head. I don't recall making too many big bets under positive counts in the last few hours, and then they say that the casino has received a number of complaints about my hygiene, and they ask me to color up my chips and leave for the day. I just say ok and then leave.

    I'm not sure what to make of this as this could be a back off due to my play, or it could be something else. I'm taking a break from there for now as I don't want to be banned from there.

  6. #45
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    It's the woman that was rude? Not you?

  7. #46
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not-grapedrink View Post
    I am glad I finally located the missing parts of my post. I've decided to give up factoring decisions on card counting....until my mind is clearer and I can put my bad experiences behind me and begin to understand what really happened. I've probably played more hands than anyone on this site over the last year (approximately 320 days averaging about 9 hours a day and lots of heads up), and I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't work. ...if my undocumented, anecdotal evidence is any indicator. I've been using hi opt 2 on double deck for $25 and $50 table minimums.

    Over the course of time at most tables I think there is a pattern. Most times the table isn't going to be that great. It'll be choppy. You'll win 1 or 2 and the dealer wins 2 or 3 and then you push on some hands.

    Then there are the few shoes where you are on fire. You just make every hand, you start with 20's despite negative counts, the dealer busts, or falls short of advertised (ex: you have 18, dealer shows a 9 which implies 19, but instead dealer has an 8 underneath). This can go on a whole shoe but most times the count is negative so you only bet the minimum. You make some money but don't come close to maximizing value....because you have no clue when this is going to happen or how long it will continue. I've missed out on a lot of money only betting the minimum on these shoes. ...because I am unable to predict the future. These are the shoes to press regardless of the count. ...if you have a crystal ball. With enough experience you'll come to see that despite the count you'll still start off with 20's or other solid starting hands and beat the dealer more often than not. ...if things go the way they seemed to have gone during this past year, although I did not keep records, but I'm pretty sure. These stretches usually don't last long. Sometimes half an hour if you're lucky or sometimes only a shoe. ...and you will always know when they are over when you start losing money although you're never really sure that it's over until you look back and see how many hands you lost until you became convinced that it was over, and you hope you quit ahead of the game, which if you're lucky you will.

    Then there are the nightmare shoes. You pretty much lose every hand and double down despite the count. TC of +4 and you're still getting non-stop 14, 15, 16, 17 and busting while the dealer gets an endless supply of 20's. This is where we all lose most of our money. The shoe is bad. The math says there is no connection to future hands and we should only focus on the count but anyone playing more than 6 months of heavy blackjack play knows this is bs....in the short run but holds true in the long run, but I have not really played long enough nor am I necessarily representative of the average player. In shoes like this it doesn't matter if the tc is +4 or -4, you're still going to bust out when you hit you're 13 and the dealer is going to get the 6 card 20's. Point is don't throw away money in shit shoes like this when the count is high because the cards are set up in a way where you're probably going to lose it....and the only thing you have in your favor is accurate information as to your "probability" of winning, not your "certainty" of winning.

    Point is waiting for the stretch of table where it is running good, and is a positive count is super super super rare....sometimes, but not always, and that is why you need to have such a high max bet, because a 1% or 2% edge is simply not that large an advantage, so you must maximize it when you get it and trust in the math to see you through over the long run. Most often it is positive count and shitty, negative count and good, so don't be afraid to put a big bet in when the count is negative....if you hate money and believe that my limited experience is enough to discredit the math and the billions upon billions of simulations that prove otherwise.
    I am sure happy that I found the rest of my write-up because I would not want to mislead anyone that I am drawing silly conclusions from my limited experience and probably limited skill at choosing and playing blackjack games. Likely, my losses are due to either choosing games with poor rules or inadequate pen, or possibly, although I don't like to admit it, from my poor implementation of card counting protocols. I have decided to listen to others more experienced than me and to try to hone my skills until I begin experiencing the same outcomes that billions of simulations indicate I should be seeing. Until then, I will refrain from criticizing what has been proven to be a winning strategy for playing Blackjack, even though in my inexperience I sometimes cannot see the forest for the trees. With this new found humility and faith in those who have gone before me, I will try to improve my game with faith that the math will work for me just as it does for others. Could I be an outlier? Perhaps, but what is gambling anyway, if not acting in accordance with the probabilities? It's better to lose with the odds in one's favor than to foolishly throw your money away against all odds, perhaps getting lucky from time to time. If I believed in luck, I would not have become a card counter in the first place.
    Last edited by Aslan; 01-22-2015 at 06:24 AM.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  8. #47
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    If they wanted to back you off they wouldn't be talking about your hygene. What you have to worry about is making them want to review your play when they wouldn't have otherwise. Being polite, apologetic and cooperative is the best you can do. If you are playing rated and they review your play expect to be informed they don't want your action upon your return. If they know you being unrated won't help. The answer will be obvious during your next visit if they have reviewed your play. If you have a losing history there they may not act yet. They may see you as a cash cow would be counter getting lucky in the short term. Basically go back clean and do everything like nothing happened and see what happens. Next time go to the bathroom before it comes to this. I guess you didn't need to be told that last bit of info. LOL

  9. #48
    Senior Member Emeritus Sonny's Avatar
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    I swear I always end up sitting next to guys like this.

    -Sonny-

  10. #49
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    Hey, this might be the first AP ever banned for doing something as simple as just shitting his pants.

  11. #50
    Senior Member Aslan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffdiver View Post
    Hey, this might be the first AP ever banned for doing something as simple as just shitting his pants.
    It's a tried and true way to clear the tables.

    Aslan 11/1/90 - 6/15/10 Stormy 1/22/95 - 8/23/10... “Life’s most urgent question is: what are you doing for others?” — Martin Luther King, Jr.

  12. #51
    Senior Member metronome's Avatar
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    It's a tried and true way to clear any room
    “One man’s remorse is another man’s reminiscence.” Ogden Nash

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aslan View Post
    It's a tried and true way to clear the tables.
    Not if the count is really high.

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