Video Poker/Machine Plays

[bigplayer]

Video Poker you are essentially flipping coins with the casino and then returning at a later date to collect your EV which comes in the form of direct mail. I suggest you purchase Bob Dancer's various books (Million Dollar Video Poker) and the Frugal Gambler books by Jean Scott for more info. Nobody is going to directly give you their tricks as to how they maximize the value of their coupons, but I suggest you subscribe to VPFree and the Yahoo Harrah's group and get the daily digest and read everything you can. Think in terms of what criteria the casino uses to judge who to send the best coupons to and force them to make a decision about your future worth based on the least amount of information possible. Remember you're not trying to beat the game, you're trying to beat the casino's marketing department.

[mcallister3200]

With regards to dancers books, million dollar video poker is more of a story/memoir/biography(compare to bringing down the house) and is just sort of ok imo, more of a fun read than get a lot out of it. His "Video poker for the intelligent beginner" is excellent and more of a how to/educational book(compare to professional blackjack), although it doesn't touch enough on mail. It does kinda pimp his software a little too hard, but is complimentary and explains how to use the software for evaluating promotions, bankroll calc, etc.

[Exoter175]

Remember you're not trying to beat the game, you're trying to beat the casino's marketing department.

Exceptionally wise BP, that's EXACTLY what the angle is, and often times people overlook that with the "face value" promotions that get offered weekly or monthly.

With regards to dancers books, million dollar video poker is more of a story/memoir/biography(compare to bringing down the house) and is just sort of ok imo, more of a fun read than get a lot out of it. His "Video poker for the intelligent beginner" is excellent and more of a how to/educational book(compare to professional blackjack), although it doesn't touch enough on mail. It does kinda pimp his software a little too hard, but is complimentary and explains how to use the software for evaluating promotions, bankroll calc, etc.

To each his own, really. I find more "information" is given to me on the story/memoir/biography level than in any other form of literature based communication between two people. Let me preface this by saying, everyone has a story and at some point, they want to tell it. Dancer is wise beyond his year at VP, and while he does do a lot of self promotion, if you listen close enough you can learn YEARS worth of experience without ever having to submit yourself to the trial and error or the hardships accompanying the growing pains of VP/Machine play.

As an aside, I LOVE to hear peoples' stories, and beyond the books and whatnot that I've read from guys like Dancer, Wong, Grosjean, even Nersesian. I had a wonderful conversation about 7 months ago from a local "comp hustler" who is about 3 times my age or so, who has been doing this for a looooooooooong time, and we must have talked for about 4 or 5 hours about the "old days" and other "Good times" he had. Its truly remarkable what you can learn or take in, just lending an ear to someone.

But I excel in that, I suppose. I've gained the "trust" of all the local "machine hustlers" in quick fashion, to the point that they will often call me up to a casino to take one of their plays that they don't have the bankroll for, or the time for, and a few of them have even taken me under their wings in a way, that I've been shown "plays" that I had never even considered before talking with them.

It always pays to be friendly, optimistic, and sociable in my experiences. Maybe one day I'll write a memoir about it :P

[biggg]

The value is in the mail in these places. Grinding away with a half percent edge is not the correct approach the variance will eat you alive and you can do much better. Some casinos its theo some its actual loss some tier some its a combination. If you can figure that out the strategy to beat the casino is trivial.

The big thing is you absolutely want to have multiple players cards both for testing and maximizing wins when you find the right formula.

[moo321]

The value is in the mail in these places. Grinding away with a half percent edge is not the correct approach the variance will eat you alive and you can do much better. Some casinos its theo some its actual loss some tier some its a combination. If you can figure that out the strategy to beat the casino is trivial.

The big thing is you absolutely want to have multiple players cards both for testing and maximizing wins when you find the right formula.

Be careful with the multiple players' cards. I understand, from an operations perspective, what you're saying and why. But players should know that a jackpot can get confiscated if they're playing under another name.

Based on reading a few court cases, I'm inclined to think that you can't have winnings confiscated based on playing under a fake name, but the casinos will certainly try.

[moses]

It always pays to be friendly, optimistic, and sociable in my experiences. Maybe one day I'll write a memoir about it :P

Ex Man. I rarely see this and it's even more rare that I say it. You have something special going. I couldn't quite put my finger on it until now.

You are wise far beyond your years, yet you maintain this extreme hunger or thirst to learn more. Don't LOSE that!

[biggg]

Be careful with the multiple players' cards. I understand, from an operations perspective, what you're saying and why. But players should know that a jackpot can get confiscated if they're playing under another name.

Based on reading a few court cases, I'm inclined to think that you can't have winnings confiscated based on playing under a fake name, but the casinos will certainly try.

I have always got paid but it could be an issue for sure if not handled correctly.

[Exoter175]

Be careful with the multiple players' cards. I understand, from an operations perspective, what you're saying and why. But players should know that a jackpot can get confiscated if they're playing under another name.

Based on reading a few court cases, I'm inclined to think that you can't have winnings confiscated based on playing under a fake name, but the casinos will certainly try.

Moo, I think what he is saying here is playing on OTHER peoples' cards, not creating aliases or fakes, which is what those court cases are derived from. What he's suggesting is if you can get, say 20 bucks in slot play today by earning 100 points, you'd be inclined to play on 4 or 5 cards for those points if you can afford it, assuming you don't have to hit the cage to redeem them and you know the pin number to the card. Boom, there's 80-100 just for breaking even.

There is caution to be had, however, because the casinos will ban you for running other peoples' cards and possible ban those people for letting you do it. In situations like these, its best to have somewhat of a "story" together. I "do" this personally, so my story is (If I'm ever caught) that I'm putting points on my Mother/Father/Girlfriend's cards to get them to the next tier level. I've already talked about situations similar to mine with casino personnel, some places don't even care, some get really pissed about it, you just need to gauge their level of interest before you try.

Suffice to say, I make ~$235 on a specific day of the week by doing this, like clockwork.

Ex Man. I rarely see this and it's even more rare that I say it. You have something special going. I couldn't quite put my finger on it until now.

You are wise far beyond your years, yet you maintain this extreme hunger or thirst to learn more. Don't LOSE that!

Thank you Moses, that means a lot coming from you. I feel like an infant on this forum, not due to my age, but due to the endless knowledge that I'm able to absorb from you guys. I'm always looking for ways to refine my game and you guys never cease to give me the insight that I need to rework the wrinkles and folds of my game.

[moo321]

Exoter, I have no idea of the legality of using other people's freeplay. I would guess, at the least, it is a contract violation that would give rise to civil liability. Might even be considered a crime, depending on the jurisdiction. I would be very careful to research the legality before doing this.

[Exoter175]

Exoter, I have no idea of the legality of using other people's freeplay. I would guess, at the least, it is a contract violation that would give rise to civil liability. Might even be considered a crime, depending on the jurisdiction. I would be very careful to research the legality before doing this.

In an unrelated sense, its a ban-able offense, if you're related and the other patron doesn't mind, literally nothing happens about it.

In most cases, because money was not exchanged for the credits, it can't be tried as a criminal act, only as a violation of the casino's policies. And when I say "most cases" I mean that in relation to every place I've ever played.

[Three]

Exoter, I have no idea of the legality of using other people's freeplay. I would guess, at the least, it is a contract violation that would give rise to civil liability. Might even be considered a crime, depending on the jurisdiction. I would be very careful to research the legality before doing this.

I am not speaking from experience but I think it is a crime to use other peoples free play. That is there as an incentive to get them to visit the casino not just give money away and abuse would be bad for both the card holder and the person stealing the free slot play. I would think playing with an alias would be far less of a crime. Especially if you give accurate SSN. There is no law saying you have to be honest with the casino about stating your true name. Presenting a fake government provided ID is another story. If you can get a card without violating any laws about fake ID's you should be fine. I had one place give me two different accounts and I wasn't even trying to do that. I won't go into details as to why this happened as it may identify me but the boothlings aren't exactly a bunch of Einsteins. Using another's players card is identity theft, fraud and I am sure a bunch of other crimes. Just make sure you don't get a hand pay and you should be fine. If you get a hand pay they may not pay and if you are an undesirable for other reasons they might do what they can, in addition to not paying, to you. Whatever that may be.

[mjbballar23]

having multiple players cards from your friends and family who authorize you to use it is in no way a crime but its certainly against the terms of service for the players club. Having multiple fake IDs to obtain multiple players cards and redeem the freeplay is probably a crime.

[RS]

Using someone else's players card is not a crime (assuming they're OK with it). It might be (well, it IS [usually]) against the casino's rules or TOS, but last I checked, the casinos don't write the laws. I know people who have gotten caught with multiple cards and everything went A-O-K because the card holders had authorized him to use their cards.

I've never "gotten caught" using someone else's card (knock on wood)....even though I've hit royals or other jackpots on their player's card.