KJ, good advice.
DD is hard to play in Vegas. Just too sweaty. If you do play it, don't play rated. That's how you end up in Griffin, OSN, and all the other databases that may or may not exist.
And you are very correct in noting that it's more about what you can get away with.
I've played games with absolutely awful rules. Like single digit SCORE with a standard spread. Why? I could go min to max and no one cared, which made the SCORE over 100.
The Cash Cow.
I wish someone posted SCORE ratings of casinos in the Midwest like those that are available for Las Vegas casinos. I don't know how to get more information. While I know of eastern Missouri and Tunica (where the games are no longer any good), I would sure love to know good casinos in other parts of the Midwest. I am not asking for detailed information (like hole card exposing dealers, deep penetration, etc.), just want to know where the games are fair (1.2 or less penn on 6 decks, 65% on DD). Games in eastern Oklahoma, AR, western Indiana, etc.
Thanks, Muffdiver. However, I am just seeking some information where the penn rules are decent. My spread and max bet would fit the penn rules and since I am a conservative sort, and with enough experience to stay within tolerance levels. For instance, in my area, St. Louis, the DD games are decent and fair at the Ameristar and River City Casinos, horrible at Hollywood and worse at Lumiere place. 6 deck H17 games with about 1.25 or under penn are available at the 4 casinos I have been to and easily playable at the red chip level and even the Green Chip level (on busy weekends) without much heat. I wanted to hear about other places in the Midwest.Originally Posted by muffdiver
Fake IDs are just not worth it. If they know you and figure out it is a fake ID, you are in terrible shape. If they don't know you you might as well take the risk and play under your own name as you aren't worse off doing that, the first time.
The solution is to get players cards from friends/craigslist/stuff left in the slots (if the casino really can't tolerate unrated play) or just play unrated. In high limit rooms you will probably want to get a card almost always. Most casinos do not have the thing where they can pull up your face from your ID installed on the floor. At most there will be a description which is like "white male brown hair" or something like that.
I will never play rated BJ under my own name in my entire life ever again. There is no reason to do it ever. Your name can be used for too many other things.
Really? It seems ubiquitous out here in the hinterlands. Swipe the players card, picture of the ID that they scanned pops up. I see people all the time trying something, and getting the card handed back - "uhh, this isn't you."
May the cards fall in your favor.
Yeah, at the red chip level, where I"m at, "maintenance" costs like food, gas, and cigarettes can cut into your values pretty heavily depending on where you play. Since I play something like 6 days a wee, I'm getting something like 35 extra unites per week from the switch alone. Its certainly something to consider.
Believe it or not, the best game I've found in the midwest is wayyyyyyyyy north of us.. S17, DOA, DAS, RSA, HSA, NS 4 deck $5-100 table. I'm actually planning a trip in May to drive up there. I absolutely murdered them last year to the point where I actually had to force myself to STOP making money that night on several occasions.
As for in your "area" or somewhat "nearby", to your west there is a dealer that works 10P-6A at a sister property of one of the places you listed, heads up you can easily hit 300HPH if not more. She is so ungodly fast that I don't think I'm giving her enough credit by saying 300HPH. The game you will predominantly find her on is DD $15, H17, RSA, DOA, DAS, NS. Much lower SCORE game, but what you give up in SCORE, you'll be able to milk with HPH and the shroud of immunity in Missouri Gaming laws covering counters.
Oh yeah, and her PEN is about 12% on 6D, and about 28% on DD Heads up.
Personally I didn't think Lumiere was all that bad, been there a few times in the last few years, in fact I stumbled upon their opening day by accident, good god that place was a zoo.
I've had team mates get arrested and charged with carrying fake IDs and although the charges were later dropped, they ended up spending thousands in attorney and court fees. Realistically, is the EV at whatever game you're playing going to surpass the potential costs of a lawsuit? At that point, it's better to just play unrated if you have a problem.
If its important that you play rated and need to get a player's card with a fake, make sure you DON'T have the fake on you, especially when traveling. You can get into all sorts of trouble for showing a fake ID to a casino personnel(who might be even be a gaming agent!)
That's a really good point there to emphasize. Where I'm at, I usually NEVER get carded since I'm a top card regular, but I see guys get carded ALLLLLL the time at the door, bar, tables, you name it. In some states it is a HUGE fine/jail time situation, in other states it can be as little as a slap on the wrist, but in the long run it is bound to come back and bite you in the ass, is it really worth the struggle? I've been over 1/4th the country this last year playing games and I've found so many juicy little gold mines that it just doesn't seem to be worth the hassle and potential jail time to pay for what would end up being a shitty fake ID, only to get thrown in the drunk tank a few times. Save that $100-200 for the fake ID, put it into the gas tank of your car, and go find a game. Trust me when I say this, out in the "sticks" of the midwest you'll find games you couldn't even dream of, with little to no heat, and a handful of guys operating the tables with zero clue to what a counter is.
In fact, I know of a game so juicy with such non existent heat and floor personnel, that I'd guard the game with my life, knowing that I can play it off the top with an advantage and pull 12 hour shifts with a "play all" strategy and a 1-4 spread and make about 30 dollars an hour on. There's a lot to be said for scouting, that's for damned sure, why even bother with getting a fake ID to play a "sweatshop" when you can use your real ID, play a modest game on a gold mine of a table and make a living from it?
and here's an even BETTER point to emphasize...here's a guy at a "gold mine of a table...guarding a game with his life" making $30 an hour B4 expenses....that's like $60k/yr w/ no benefits and you WON'T log 2080 playing hours there, that's for sure....just pointing out that if you have what it takes, mentally, to count cards, you are much better served getting an education (college, vocational, whatever) and real job (with benefits) and playing part time
I have several degrees and accolades Sharky, and where I live, they'll net me ~48k and benefits @50/wk Personally I'm young enough not to "need" the benefits, and almost all of my proceeds go right back into my bank accounts and/or investment portfolio for retirement. My bankroll is large enough to not need diverted investments from the profits, though I do add a percentage of monthly profits to the bankroll to let it casually grow a little larger on its own. I worked my ass off for the last decade to put a lot of money away, and right until last year when I had to sign an NCC. During the "time off" during which I was still getting a portion of my salary, is when I picked up the interest in counting early last year (marchish). And the rest is history. Only until recently did the NCC expire and I've been able to find gainful employment, and while I am fielding offers, I'm being extremely selective in pay and hours, knowing what I can make on the profile I've built as a "player". You are correct though, Sharky, I cannot play that table for 2000+ hours and make my 60k per year, and that's for a few reasons. 1. I wouldn't dare become comfortable with that place and play it regularly, walking it with way more than the regulars, eventually becoming a regular myself, and 2. there's an old proverb about biting the hand that feeds. I've already got a plan to go murder that table mid year this year, and it won't be for 30/hr like in the hypothesis posed, basing numbers from a "casual" game.
At the end of the day, I'm young, experienced, ambitious, and pragmatic about the whole "operation". I know what I can do, I know what I can't do so the only thing I'm willing to "stretch" at this point is the hours, not the tolerenace of the casinos. My goal is to hit 3,400 hours this year. I know its ambitious of me, and I know I'm going to fall short, but as long as everything is working and I'm mentally sharp, all its going to do is add to my projection and hopefully net me the 80k I want to hit this year from APBJ, with combined numbers of 100k+ from combined AP play.
I didn't get enough scout time to find out at the game I'm particular about, but the overall vibe I got was that they just didn't care about the game, at all.
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