my first flat bet order

**Exoter175** · 12-23-2014, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by ellenc

I was in M chain house in Vegas playing DD s17, head to head in multi grave yard sesions, got back off and told that I can only flat batted. My qestion is, how long this ban will last? In all store in their chain? How about the store outside of this chain?

When you say "M chain house" are you referring to "the M" which is owned by a chain, or are you referring to the MGM chain?

Originally Posted by ohbehave

There would be no legal recourse ZK, you would just be SOOL. You might get away with it once or twice.

If they have your name then it could be toast everywhere, but don't let that stop you. Play unrated. If you must play rated can you play shoe games, would be a good test to see how tolerant they are. Just be sure to stay away from that shift for awhile.

Personally, I have been backed off at a M property and have played a sister property a couple of times using a card with no problems. YMMV

Not only is there no legal recourse, an approach like ZK mentioned if this in fact at an MGM property, is likely going to get you black booked at about 75% of the locations he would be looking to play at around the "country" as well as a few "near" him, too.

Originally Posted by ellenc

Here is how it heppened. Got a marker for a thousand, did not talk, did not ask for a drink, even an attractive girl repeatedly offering, only concentrated what happened on the table, so I would not have known whether the black tie people were watching me. The dealers usually were senior in their sixty. At one point she made a comment"you know how to play the game". My reply was : na, l got lucky. My spread was 1 to 4, playing green chip. I was up 700, payoff the marker and left. Second session, got a marker for 500, in about half an hour, I was double, color up, about to leave, here came the backoff. A person in nice black suit seat next to me while I was waiting for the chip. He said: Mr. Xxxxxxxx, l am xxxxxxx, the casino manager , the casino decides from now on, you can only flat bet, you know what it means? My reply with a smile was: that is not fair and left.
Indeed, I felt that way because l first started playing when l was in service stationed in Souel, Korea twenty some years ago. Over the years, only played a few times a year, always losing, paid a lot of tuition, so to speak. Until last couple years, got good at AP practice, start winning. So the casino would welcome the naive players, but ban the AP players. It's for fact, AP is from naive player, therefore, casino is oligated to allow players in all level. l use reko, it works.

First Mistake: Staying quiet and not interacting with everyone near and around the table. This includes other players, the dealer, the waitress/es, and keeping an eye out for any and all manner of PC's.

Second Mistake: Playing on a marker. If you ask for a marker, they are going to almost always have an EITS on you at all times while you play, and they will have a hand by hand analysis of EVERYTHING that you have done at a blackjack table since the moment you asked for a marker. Here's the thing. Its one thing to bring IN money to the casino and count, its another to use THEIR money to count. They aren't going to tolerate that for a second.

Third Mistake: Even ever so slightly admitting to the GM that you KNEW what he was mentioning and that it was "unfair".

Additional Stuff: When that dealer said you were really good, you should have smiled or smirked, and commented with something like. "You know, I'd like to think I'm a pretty good gambler", and leave it at that, instead of not responding or being "short" with a response like "nah, just got lucky". If a dealer suspects you as a counter, says you play pretty well and you brush off the "false compliment" during a session where you're doing well and say "nah just lucky", meanwhile not engaging with anyone in or around that Table, you're going to stick out like the sorest thumb in a room full of daisies. Also, you should have been "fighting" with Casino security on that one. And I don't mean being physical, but you should have taken a very abrasive, "matter of fact" point in the middle of the casino with a slightly elevated volume of voice, while being compliant in their directions. This allows for comments like "Of course I count cards you idiot, how the hell else am I supposed to hit or stay on a hand if I don't know what the total of my hand is". One sharp, loud remark like that, with a convincing body language and tone is likely to throw them off completely, as well as force them into a more manageable role of action to accommodating you and keep this "incident" from escalating further. It may not work every time, but simply Smiling and saying that it isn't fair, while acknowledging that you understood what he meant, all but put the nail on that coffin.

Originally Posted by Goodboy

I am not familiar with the EC term. What does it stand for?

And while I am at it.... what's a M property? MGM? Others?

Thanks in advance

I too am trying to figure out whether he means this was an MGM property, or if it was at "The M" since the two are completely different.

**ellenc** · 12-23-2014, 06:48 AM

Mgm

**ellenc** · 12-23-2014, 08:31 AM

[QUOTE=Goodboy;148638]I am not familiar with the EC term. What does it stand for?

I think it stands for Early Childhoods

**muffdiver** · 12-23-2014, 08:36 AM

El Cortez

**ellenc** · 12-23-2014, 04:10 PM

Would like to sum it up for the Don't and Do . Everyone is welcome to add to the list.

Don't: 1. Do not take marker.
2. Do not return to same table if you are up(at least for the same trip)
3. Do not try to play blackjack to make a living, because if you are good at it, you will be boot.

Do: 1. Do bring cash to the table.
2. Do socialize while you are counting. (not easy)
3. Do ask for drink, but sip very little, and look at the the girls.
4. Do play unrated.
5. Do exit when the dealer compliments you are good player.

**muffdiver** · 12-24-2014, 06:07 AM

Originally Posted by ellenc

Would like to sum it up for the Don't and Do . Everyone is welcome to add to the list.

Don't: 1. Do not take marker.
2. Do not return to same table if you are up(at least for the same trip)

Do: 1. Do bring cash to the table.
2. Do socialize while you are counting. (not easy)
3. Do ask for drink, but sip very little, and look at the the girls.
4. Do play unrated.

When all else fails, go big on #3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry Xmas everyone,
muffdiver

**biggg** · 12-24-2014, 09:46 AM

Rated play across multiple shifts at vegas double decks is just not going to work and is not a good idea ever except in ideal special circumstances, like say a fight weekend with purple+ action in adjacent pits. Pretty shocked that you got backed off spreading 1-4 in green but it's probably because you won.

**metronome** · 12-24-2014, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by muffdiver

When all else fails, go big on #3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry Xmas everyone,
muffdiver

Ah..wisdom for the ages! Totally agree!!!

Merry Christmas to you also Mr.Muff

**Exoter175** · 12-31-2014, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by ellenc

Would like to sum it up for the Don't and Do . Everyone is welcome to add to the list.

Don't: 1. Do not take marker.
2. Do not return to same table if you are up(at least for the same trip)

Do: 1. Do bring cash to the table.
2. Do socialize while you are counting. (not easy)
3. Do ask for drink, but sip very little, and look at the the girls.
4. Do play unrated.
5. Do exit when the dealer compliments you are good player.

#5 I completely disagree with, big no-no. A dealer compliment like that is either a legitimate thing and they are "bonding" with you as you are likely making their lives easier by knowing how to play, OR, and the most common OR here, its a setup to see your reaction as a suspected counter. If you leave, you're making it extremely obvious.

A better "reply" to a situation like that, rather than leaving, is to make some joke about the fact that you've played the game long enough now that you "ought" to know not to hit on a hard 17, and then toss in a believable laugh and finish out the shoe/WO-to the bathroom.

**ACFERRET** · 01-03-2015, 04:57 PM

I just want to chime in and tell a story.
I was once playing in a vegas casino on a DD game.....I asked for a host....after this, as i was playing, a man approached me and told me i could only flat bet.....I proceded to only flat bet the last couple hands of the game....20-30 minutes later the host showed up and gave me a comp for a restraunt...I got steak and a cheescake, and then i went to a different casino.
Back in the day when this happened NMS rules were not as common.

**BJGenius007** · 01-03-2015, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by ellenc

Would like to sum it up for the Don't and Do . Everyone is welcome to add to the list.

Don't: 1. Do not take marker.
2. Do not return to same table if you are up(at least for the same trip)

Do: 1. Do bring cash to the table.
2. Do socialize while you are counting. (not easy)
3. Do ask for drink, but sip very little, and look at the the girls.
4. Do play unrated.
5. Do exit when the dealer compliments you are good player.

Do you exit when the dealer ask if you are a counter, compliment like saying it seems that you can't lose? And when? Immediately or after 2 more hands?

**stopgambling** · 01-04-2015, 01:25 AM

Number 5 is a bit tricky . it really doesn't sound good ,but a proper response and a properly timed exit is necessary.

**Three** · 01-04-2015, 01:02 PM

Many of the casinos around here test your response to heat. Leaving the table confirms you are an AP but staying removes heat. You have to gauge for yourself but some places around ere half shoe everyone as soon as their table is pretty empty. If you leave you will always be half shoed if you stay you will enjoy thin cuts and no heat for a long time. Just realize you may be being tested so gauge your response appropriately.