What size are your typical session wins/losses

[Goodboy]

It might be possible that either I'm incredibly lucky with my win rate, or perhaps maybe your pre-determined hours are limiting you.

Right now I"m willing to side on me just being lucky, since you've got about 3 times the logged sessions I do so far.

Out of curiosity, are you using any stop-win/stop-loss triggers on top of this?

I guess other people's ratios could help us gain perspective on the issue if "you've been on the lucky side" because of your numbers.

Now, according to Don's knowledge on the subject that I am sure comes from extensive simulations, I feel you might be on that lucky side, not just because my number is 3 times more than yours which is still a low number for the long run.

About stop -win, I keep a number of maxbets in mind depending on the tolerance of the place but I've only triggered that 3 or 4 times. For context, I play with little or no heat in most of my sessions though.

And stop - losses, I normally carry between 30 or 40 maxbets, as session bankroll. I've triggered that 7 times.

[ohbehave]

51.7% winning sessions, 37.3 losing sessions, 11% even sessions. Counting an even session as less than 1 unit won or lost. I don't use any set session length or stop-win, stop-loss limit but my sessions average about 3 shoes.

[Exoter175]

I guess other people's ratios could help us gain perspective on the issue if "you've been on the lucky side" because of your numbers.

Now, according to Don's knowledge on the subject that I am sure comes from extensive simulations, I feel you might be on that lucky side, not just because my number is 3 times more than yours which is still a low number for the long run.

About stop -win, I keep a number of maxbets in mind depending on the tolerance of the place but I've only triggered that 3 or 4 times. For context, I play with little or no heat in most of my sessions though.

And stop - losses, I normally carry between 30 or 40 maxbets, as session bankroll. I've triggered that 7 times.

You've triggered 7 sessions at 30-40 max bet loss? What's the typical "game" you play?

[Goodboy]

You've triggered 7 sessions at 30-40 max bet loss? What's the typical "game" you play?

Assuming you are surprised because 7 seems too many, I was going to explain that 7 out of 400 sessions is only a 1,8% and that I've had similar winning sessions on the other side of the curve and so on...

... but then I started looking at the data and I realized that 5 out of the 7 sessions mentioned, happened when I used a session bankroll of 10 maxbets, not 30 to 40 which is the current one. So that might explain your surprise

[Exoter175]

Assuming you are surprised because 7 seems too many, I was going to explain that 7 out of 400 sessions is only a 1,8% and that I've had similar winning sessions on the other side of the curve and so on...

... but then I started looking at the data and I realized that 5 out of the 7 sessions mentioned, happened when I used a session bankroll of 10 maxbets, not 30 to 40 which is the current one. So that might explain your surprise

That makes a LOT more sense. 2/400 is a much more realistic statistic, IMO, for a session/trip than 7/400.

[ZenKinG]

Define session. Some people label session as 1 shoe and some label session as hours played that day or night.

If you're talking about the latter, my sessions are usually 4-6 hours and on average in the range of -500 +700. That's with an EV of only $40 an hour, in which I just play for fun because at these stakes it's better off to not play seriously and consequently burn your face for a low EV. I suggest anyone playing at these similar stakes who eventually want to make serious money counting long term that they just quit and wait until they have a bigger bankroll to play meaningful stakes.

Of course everyone has their own preference in what a low or high EV is, but at around $30-40 an hour in EV, it's going to be a grind and you're better off finding a decent paying job rather than traveling back and forth to different stores, in which the gas expense will also cut into your profits. Additionally, playing at a low EV, you are just burning up your most important asset to make money in this game and that is your face. You dont want pit crews from every casino around you to remember or know who you are. Save your face for later down the road when you have an EV in the $250-300 an hour range and then you can start exposing yourself and your game around. My .02

[Exoter175]

Define session. Some people label session as 1 shoe and some label session as hours played that day or night.

If you're talking about the latter, my sessions are usually 4-6 hours and on average in the range of -500 +700. That's with an EV of only $40 an hour, in which I just play for fun because at these stakes it's better off to not play seriously and consequently burn your face for a low EV. I suggest anyone playing at these similar stakes who eventually want to make serious money counting long term that they just quit and wait until they have a bigger bankroll to play meaningful stakes.

Of course everyone has their own preference in what a low or high EV is, but at around $30-40 an hour in EV, it's going to be a grind and you're better off finding a decent paying job rather than traveling back and forth to different stores, in which the gas expense will also cut into your profits. Additionally, playing at a low EV, you are just burning up your most important asset to make money in this game and that is your face. You dont want pit crews from every casino around you to remember or know who you are. Save your face for later down the road when you have an EV in the $250-300 an hour range and then you can start exposing yourself and your game around. My .02

I don't think I've talked to, known, or heard of a single person IRL or on this forum who has ever defined a session as "1 shoe", that's just silly.

As for your comment there, this is where I"m going to largely disagree with you. First of all, this entire forum knows you play in the fantasy world more than you actually play IRL, we've had lengthy discussion about this where both T3 and I have given you quite a bit of grief about the difference between fantasy and reality games you've been playing in your mind, after you told us you wouldn't be "playing" until you built a $100,000 BR by working two jobs.

Second of all, everything we do is a "grind", that's just simply how this game works for us. Though some games are more favorable than others, we still need to see X amount of hands per hour, per day, per month, per year, per whatever.

I think your "idea" of what is "important" is really subjective or just way off base here. Your face isn't the most valuable asset, your ability to play without getting noticed, is. Playing larger stakes with a larger bankroll is a big red flag in the "bigger" areas of the country. This is a big reason why there's such a thing as team play, because 10 guys with a "max" bet of $250 are a hell of a lot more effective as 1 guy with a "max" bet of $2500. Those $250 bets will go largely unnoticed and that's 10 faces you'd have to remember and put the time into, to figure them out as counters. 1 guy with a $2500 bet is basically outing himself as a counter, and now the EITS only needs to take but a fraction of the time to go through your history to figure you out as a counter. There's just a HANDFUL of places in this country where you could even "POSSIBLY" get away with a top bet of $2500, and do it "semi frequently" without getting caught, and now you've just slashed your opportunities at other stores because you won't or shouldn't be willing to play there due to heat. But if your max bet is $250, you can play at any casino in this country and get away with it, as long as you have a little bit of "game" to back it up.

And I don't mean that as in having the best mind to be able to calculate the percentages to the millionth decimal like T3, or be able to create some magical, complicated count like Tarzan. I mean being able to be like KJ and play a million stores in the area and make money for a living, for years! After all, what's the point of learning all of this information if we only ever get to apply it for 3 months before no casino in the country will take our bets? If you practice discretion, be pragmatic about your approach to the game, and you play coy and cautious, you'll be able to reap the most out of this game we play.

There's two ways to look at this game, ZK. There's your way, which is the absolute min/max of EV to the point where the second you lay down your first bet, you're going to get flagged as a counter, and then there's KJ's way, where he takes what he can get and makes a lifelong career out of it.

Who cares if you play at $250 EV/hr if you only get to do it 10 days out of the month for 3 months? You're not going to make nearly as much money as I have this year playing $25-35 ev/hr games, and you're certainly not going to make as much as KJ probably has in his lifetime that way.

I don't think there's a single person on this forum except for you, ZK, that believes that Maximum EV is the best, rather, I think about everyone on this forum agrees that maximizing EV within an "allowable" range is best. Looking at +EV alone might just be the nail in the Coffin of a career that hasn't even started yet.

Sound Advice. ZK. Avoid small casinos that watch their pennies. Those PBs get promoted to big casinos and guess who is there first target to impress their new employer. You're better off learning the game on Verite.

I think the better point made is what you just said, if those lower level pit critters get an idea that you're counting and then get promoted, you're going to be the first one under the microscope the second they step into the job, so in retrospect, I disagree with ZK. Your biggest asset isn't your face, its your mind, and its your game. If you can play a profitable game and get away with it, you should be putting your time to use there. Time, IMO, is a bigger asset than your "face". Playing a "fantasy world game" where you have a $100,000 BR playing $25-100 tables showing max bets of 2.5k sounds nice, but you can't get away with it for long. Not even a grinder like KJ, or a master of "disguise" like myself could pull that off, so "staying at home" isn't a solid idea or option here. Everyone needs to find a suitable game for themselves, one they can strive for longevity with, and one that is both reasonable, and practical.

Since absolutely not of us who "do play" want to get BO'd or barred, I don't there's any of us who would even think about playing a $250-300 /hr EV range game, and a large part of that circles back, again, to us not wanting to get caught.

[ZenKinG]

I don't think I've talked to, known, or heard of a single person IRL or on this forum who has ever defined a session as "1 shoe", that's just silly.

As for your comment there, this is where I"m going to largely disagree with you. First of all, this entire forum knows you play in the fantasy world more than you actually play IRL, we've had lengthy discussion about this where both T3 and I have given you quite a bit of grief about the difference between fantasy and reality games you've been playing in your mind, after you told us you wouldn't be "playing" until you built a $100,000 BR by working two jobs.

Second of all, everything we do is a "grind", that's just simply how this game works for us. Though some games are more favorable than others, we still need to see X amount of hands per hour, per day, per month, per year, per whatever.

I think your "idea" of what is "important" is really subjective or just way off base here. Your face isn't the most valuable asset, your ability to play without getting noticed, is. Playing larger stakes with a larger bankroll is a big red flag in the "bigger" areas of the country. This is a big reason why there's such a thing as team play, because 10 guys with a "max" bet of $250 are a hell of a lot more effective as 1 guy with a "max" bet of $2500. Those $250 bets will go largely unnoticed and that's 10 faces you'd have to remember and put the time into, to figure them out as counters. 1 guy with a $2500 bet is basically outing himself as a counter, and now the EITS only needs to take but a fraction of the time to go through your history to figure you out as a counter. There's just a HANDFUL of places in this country where you could even "POSSIBLY" get away with a top bet of $2500, and do it "semi frequently" without getting caught, and now you've just slashed your opportunities at other stores because you won't or shouldn't be willing to play there due to heat. But if your max bet is $250, you can play at any casino in this country and get away with it, as long as you have a little bit of "game" to back it up.

And I don't mean that as in having the best mind to be able to calculate the percentages to the millionth decimal like T3, or be able to create some magical, complicated count like Tarzan. I mean being able to be like KJ and play a million stores in the area and make money for a living, for years! After all, what's the point of learning all of this information if we only ever get to apply it for 3 months before no casino in the country will take our bets? If you practice discretion, be pragmatic about your approach to the game, and you play coy and cautious, you'll be able to reap the most out of this game we play.

There's two ways to look at this game, ZK. There's your way, which is the absolute min/max of EV to the point where the second you lay down your first bet, you're going to get flagged as a counter, and then there's KJ's way, where he takes what he can get and makes a lifelong career out of it.

Who cares if you play at $250 EV/hr if you only get to do it 10 days out of the month for 3 months? You're not going to make nearly as much money as I have this year playing $25-35 ev/hr games, and you're certainly not going to make as much as KJ probably has in his lifetime that way.

I don't think there's a single person on this forum except for you, ZK, that believes that Maximum EV is the best, rather, I think about everyone on this forum agrees that maximizing EV within an "allowable" range is best. Looking at +EV alone might just be the nail in the Coffin of a career that hasn't even started yet.



I think the better point made is what you just said, if those lower level pit critters get an idea that you're counting and then get promoted, you're going to be the first one under the microscope the second they step into the job, so in retrospect, I disagree with ZK. Your biggest asset isn't your face, its your mind, and its your game. If you can play a profitable game and get away with it, you should be putting your time to use there. Time, IMO, is a bigger asset than your "face". Playing a "fantasy world game" where you have a $100,000 BR playing $25-100 tables showing max bets of 2.5k sounds nice, but you can't get away with it for long. Not even a grinder like KJ, or a master of "disguise" like myself could pull that off, so "staying at home" isn't a solid idea or option here. Everyone needs to find a suitable game for themselves, one they can strive for longevity with, and one that is both reasonable, and practical.

Since absolutely not of us who "do play" want to get BO'd or barred, I don't there's any of us who would even think about playing a $250-300 /hr EV range game, and a large part of that circles back, again, to us not wanting to get caught.

When did I say I would be playing 2,500 bets? I think you need some reading comprehension classes. An EV of 250-300 an hour only needs a max bet of roughly 2x400 or 2x500 with the favorable rules and pen in my area, which can also be disguised with green chips as well to make it look even less noticeable by not having the dealer call 'black action'. Once again ill keep following my own advice and my plan. I dont need people misreading my information and spouting out a different story and then giving me advice how I'm wrong.

Also when did I say maximizing EV is the ONLY and MOST important thing? I said an APs face is the most important asset to an AP. Maximizing EV is just a compliment to that. By saving your face from playing low stakes you can then allow yourself to play with a fresh new face they have never seen before and hit them hard. Of course a proper strategy will still be needed to keep exposure limited to the 'eye' and pit bosses each session whether its limited hours each session, playing different shifts and maybe even some cover plays in there to fool some of the more novice pit bosses

Fantasy land? I've played about 150 hours this past year, kept a log and I'm only up around 4k and its just not worth it to me when weighing the pros and cons for what I want to do long term. If I was playing higher stakes say 2x300-2x400, I would have been up a more respectable amount that is more in correlation to a great return in todays society. I now have decided it's not worth burning up my face playing at these stakes and will not play one more hour until I'm properly bankrolled, unless I go out with some friends for fun, then maybe. Everyone is different to what is acceptable to them, so to each their own, but for me I find it to not be worth it, working two jobs and taking late night trips to the casino pulling an all nighter and going straight to work the next day.

[Blitzkrieg]

Since absolutely not of us who "do play" want to get BO'd or barred, I don't there's any of us who would even think about playing a $250-300 /hr EV range game, and a large part of that circles back, again, to us not wanting to get caught.

The way you finished up the sentence almost makes it sound as if your doing something illegal.

[Blitzkrieg]

Fantasy land? I've played about 150 hours this past year, kept a log and I'm only up around 4k and its just not worth it to me when weighing the pros and cons for what I want to do long term. If I was playing higher stakes say 2x300-2x400, I would have been up a more respectable amount that is more in correlation to a great return in todays society. I now have decided it's not worth burning up my face playing at these stakes and will not play one more hour until I'm properly bankrolled, unless I go out with some friends for fun, then maybe. Everyone is different to what is acceptable to them, so to each their own, but for me I find it to not be worth it, working two jobs and taking late night trips to the casino pulling an all nighter and going straight to work the next day.

It seems to me that the most important asset to a BJ player is their mind, along with a bankroll. Faces can change, the way in which you dress can change. Like a chameleon. If you don't believe me take a set of Wahl clippers and shave your head bald and change up your table mannerisms. If your up $4K for the year I'd have to say that your doing alright and it's tax free money if your winning and under the tax threshold. Are you working two jobs because you want to or because you have to? After taxes your only working for half pay. So to say that your not going to play anymore until your properly bankrolled doesn't make financial sense if your up $4K for the year in addition with your original bankroll. Do you know how to play No-Limit poker besides for Blackjack? You have options, tax free options.

[ZenKinG]

It seems to me that the most important asset to a BJ player is their mind, along with a bankroll. Faces can change, the way in which you dress can change. Like a chameleon. If you don't believe me take a set of Wahl clippers and shave your head bald and change up your table mannerisms. If your up $4K for the year I'd have to say that your doing alright and it's tax free money if your winning and under the tax threshold. Are you working two jobs because you want to or because you have to? After taxes your only working for half pay. So to say that your not going to play anymore until your properly bankrolled doesn't make financial sense if your up $4K for the year in addition with your original bankroll. Do you know how to play No-Limit poker besides for Blackjack? You have options, tax free options.

No offense but 4k is not worth it to me playing 150 hours. Im looking at more of the big picture of what I want to do with this game. Working two jobs by choice. I have my business degree about two years ago and cant find a job within my field like most graduates. Doesnt help that im picky and i dont want to get into entry level bull**** marketing. Im also in the markets and im fairly confident my stock will pay off big. Just a waiting game for now and working as much as I can and playing blackjack for fun trying to make a profit, but for now I think i will stop as it's not worth my time anymore pulling all nighters while working two jobs.

No I dont play poker, although I was interested in learning before but never got into it. Just know the basics and watch the WSOP Main Event on ESPN from time to time when it airs.

[Blitzkrieg]

No offense but 4k is not worth it to me playing 150 hours. Im looking at more of the big picture of what I want to do with this game. Working two jobs by choice. I have my business degree about two years ago and cant find a job within my field like most graduates. Doesnt help that im picky and i dont want to get into entry level bull**** marketing. Im also in the markets and im fairly confident my stock will pay off big. Just a waiting game for now and working as much as I can and playing blackjack for fun trying to make a profit, but for now I think i will stop as it's not worth my time anymore pulling all nighters while working two jobs.

No I dont play poker, although I was interested in learning before but never got into it. Just know the basics and watch the WSOP Main Event on ESPN from time to time when it airs.

Last time I checked a win is a win! So your playing an average of 5 hours at a time, 150 hours played, so about 30 sessions for this year, 2.5 sessions a month, and your up $4K. Not bad at all.

Learning No-Limit poker isn't hard at all, but becoming a great player is a difficult task. The only way your going to learn is studying the game and hitting the tables. Or you could just take $100 and sit a $1-$3 No-Limit game and play so tight that if someone stuck a piece of coal up your butt you would shit out a diamond just to get a feel for the game if you understand the basics. Give that Halves Full Indices some justice if your up $4K.

[Exoter175]

When did I say I would be playing 2,500 bets? I think you need some reading comprehension classes. An EV of 250-300 an hour only needs a max bet of roughly 2x400 or 2x500 with the favorable rules and pen in my area, which can also be disguised with green chips as well to make it look even less noticeable by not having the dealer call 'black action'. Once again ill keep following my own advice and my plan. I dont need people misreading my information and spouting out a different story and then giving me advice how I'm wrong.

Also when did I say maximizing EV is the ONLY and MOST important thing? I said an APs face is the most important asset to an AP. Maximizing EV is just a compliment to that. By saving your face from playing low stakes you can then allow yourself to play with a fresh new face they have never seen before and hit them hard. Of course a proper strategy will still be needed to keep exposure limited to the 'eye' and pit bosses each session whether its limited hours each session, playing different shifts and maybe even some cover plays in there to fool some of the more novice pit bosses

Fantasy land? I've played about 150 hours this past year, kept a log and I'm only up around 4k and its just not worth it to me when weighing the pros and cons for what I want to do long term. If I was playing higher stakes say 2x300-2x400, I would have been up a more respectable amount that is more in correlation to a great return in todays society. I now have decided it's not worth burning up my face playing at these stakes and will not play one more hour until I'm properly bankrolled, unless I go out with some friends for fun, then maybe. Everyone is different to what is acceptable to them, so to each their own, but for me I find it to not be worth it, working two jobs and taking late night trips to the casino pulling an all nighter and going straight to work the next day.

ZK, do you not remember this entire summer where T3 and I slammed you for your "fantasy" game where you were going to "show us all" when you worked 2 jobs to make that 100k bankroll so that your top bet could land in that $2500 range? I mean, there's like a thousand and a half posts in response/argument to you and your "fantasy" game, where you sit there and belittle, berate, and abscond others for the way they play, but you yourself refrain from playing.

A a really solid example of that, is admitted through your own lack of play. 150 hours on the year? During the summer I would net that in just under two weeks, let alone the entirety of the year, and I'd be hesitant to believe the "accuracy" of both your "winnings" and logged hours, as I'm fairly sure that you posted, after T3 railed you on your "fairytale" game, about your hours and you said you had MORE hours than just the 150 you say here, logged.

The point I keep trying to make to you, and it falls on deaf ears EVERY.....SINGLE.......TIME is that you WILL NOT be able to get away with this "fantasy" game you keep talking about, in a live setting.

You can trash talk the "game" all you want at lower EV levels saying its not worth your time, but I've probably made more in the last 8 months of play than you'll make working a full time job in a year, and I play those "shitty lower EV" games.

You need a dose of reality, and that reality is this: Whatever "game" and "strategy" you have in mind for when you come up with your arbitrary 100k bankroll, go ahead it throw it out the window. The second any store sees a consistent 2x400 or 2x500 bet going out, while you flat bet 25 you will have a LARGE target on your back. Suffice to say, if you were playing lower stakes games, the ones you seem to despite but know very little about, the floor wouldn't even bat an eye at a 2x80 or 2x100 bet, flat betting 5. And you keep talking about your "face" as a large reason to "wait" until you can play higher stakes, but, you're looking at this COMPLETELY wrong. If you've got a 100k bankroll built, that bankroll is established to last indefinitely, however, if you're betting 2x400 or 2x500 as your top bet, with a minimum of 1x25 as your low end, the Casinos will be all over your ass in a heartbeat, so what good is that 100k bankroll going to do you in the long run if you can't use it?

At that point your face is likely going to be plastered everywhere and you'll literally have to disguise yourself to get any action whatsoever, likely resulting in session lengths lower than 45 minutes on average, and severely limiting your cards seen to establish a strong enough count in the first place. Given your aggressive WI/WO and particular counting system, you'll be exposing yourself in play alone very quickly, and the second a dealer catches a couple glances of you back counting, then entering her table to lay some "hefty" bets, she'll be calling out "Checks play" frequently, drawing floor attention to you. He's going to relay that to the EITS as he'll undoubtedly suspect you are counting, they'll backtrack every step of your way through the casino, notice that you were back counting, entering a positive deck, and nail your ass to the cross within about 35 minutes of that "alert" call.

At this point, you're going to suffer through some very bad BO's and Ban/Bar scenarios, and be forced to travel, heavily cutting into your BR as you'll be traveling a lot with the Ban/Bar frequencies, and likely end up having your face plastered on a "count" list in just about every casino out there.

So tell me again how $27/hr isn't "good enough" for you (using your numbers). Hell, I'm pretty sure I'm averaging right around that number or slightly better on worse rules, "grinding" out my wins.

Or you can ignore the advice and get backed off from every casino you enter, and if that's the case, please come visit the midwest so I can watch it happen

Hindsight is 20-20. But, if I could do it all over again, there are several things I'd have done differently. Staying out of small casinos and away from $5 and $10 tables rank close to the top. Limiting time at the table, not trying to win every hand, betting beyond their spread tolerance, and put a hurtin on them in a single session are all in the top 5. T3 evaluates EV...it's nil if you can't play.

That's exactly right, and at the end of the day, its all about the information we can gather at each Casino in respect to their tolerance, insight, and ability to establish my skill level. I have to hide this, I have to be very good, very efficient, and very sneaky about it, even at my smaller bet and spread levels. Luckily, at these levels there is quite a bit more tolerance and you've got PB's who literally don't care if you're going to take a few hundred dollars a night from them, as long as you aren't hitting the higher stake games on the regular, or with team play.

The way you finished up the sentence almost makes it sound as if your doing something illegal.

Frowned upon, Illegal, say what you will but the Casino business is probably the worst "sore loser" there has ever been.

It seems to me that the most important asset to a BJ player is their mind, along with a bankroll. Faces can change, the way in which you dress can change. Like a chameleon. If you don't believe me take a set of Wahl clippers and shave your head bald and change up your table mannerisms. If your up $4K for the year I'd have to say that your doing alright and it's tax free money if your winning and under the tax threshold. Are you working two jobs because you want to or because you have to? After taxes your only working for half pay. So to say that your not going to play anymore until your properly bankrolled doesn't make financial sense if your up $4K for the year in addition with your original bankroll. Do you know how to play No-Limit poker besides for Blackjack? You have options, tax free options.

I honestly don't think he can wrap his head around the idea of doing this for a "living" rather than that "pipedream" he has in his mind. Every single long term player that I've met, had brief conversations with, or read about (like KJ here) have all but admitted the fact that it is impossible to do this over the "long term" if you're focused on maximizing EV and the potential of your BR to get every advantage possible. Almost all of these guys that I've spoken to or read about, have stressed the importance of tolerance, session frequencies, and the smaller aspects of the game, like Cover.

Coincidentally, in ZK's case, he's saying a tax free job making 4k per/mo "isn't worth it. Lets think about that for a minute. 40 hours a week, 160 hours per month, 4k tax free. That is a SOLID job in ANY state in this country, and you get all the free delicious food and drinks that your heart could desire. Where's the downside in ANY of that? Honestly.

No offense but 4k is not worth it to me playing 150 hours. Im looking at more of the big picture of what I want to do with this game. Working two jobs by choice. I have my business degree about two years ago and cant find a job within my field like most graduates. Doesnt help that im picky and i dont want to get into entry level bull**** marketing. Im also in the markets and im fairly confident my stock will pay off big. Just a waiting game for now and working as much as I can and playing blackjack for fun trying to make a profit, but for now I think i will stop as it's not worth my time anymore pulling all nighters while working two jobs.

No I dont play poker, although I was interested in learning before but never got into it. Just know the basics and watch the WSOP Main Event on ESPN from time to time when it airs.

You have to crawl before you walk, as they say. 4k/mo is essentially what your average is netting you, tax free. That's one job, not two, and likely the equivalent of what you make now, in half the time "spent". On top of that, you're growing your available BR every month getting closer to your fantasy figure of 100k, and you won't have to wait for that Garbage stock ELTP, of which you already missed the only shot of "serious" profit you'll ever see, to go up enough so you can get out. You're looking at a minimum of holding that bonehead stock for 36 more months before you ever see a stable, sizable return, from a Penny stock that you should have been out of LONG ago.

Last time I checked a win is a win! So your playing an average of 5 hours at a time, 150 hours played, so about 30 sessions for this year, 2.5 sessions a month, and your up $4K. Not bad at all.

Learning No-Limit poker isn't hard at all, but becoming a great player is a difficult task. The only way your going to learn is studying the game and hitting the tables. Or you could just take $100 and sit a $1-$3 No-Limit game and play so tight that if someone stuck a piece of coal up your butt you would shit out a diamond just to get a feel for the game if you understand the basics. Give that Halves Full Indices some justice if your up $4K.

Now apply what he's averaging, though likely unrealistic, inaccurate, and too few sessions to gain a real number from, but alas, we'll use it.

If my average session comes in at 8 hours, that's just under 19 trips to net that 150 hours, and I'll do that in a month pretty easily. He'd be generating about 213.33 dollars per session, roughly, with an expectation just slightly over 4,053 dollars per month. Lets say there's 30 days in the month, he's looking at 19/30 trips per month, or essentially playing 2 out of every 3 days. That's a pretty COMFY job for 4k/mo tax free. Yearly net should land roughly around $48.6k dollars, tax free, and he'll have his bankroll set aside in two years based on wins alone.

Though, of course, i suspect there's some inaccuracy here, but lets be honest here for 37.5 hours per week, 4k/mo tax free is a goldmine for guys as young as ZK who have no experience, a degree, and refuse to take entry level "bullshit" jobs.