Definition of AP

[Three]

like they might be able to do what we do, if they just caught our kind of lucky streak some time.

Plops I have a long playing history with often comment they wish they could do what I do. They just sit there betting pretty much the same and complaining that I don't know what I am doing. Then they say they wish they could do what I do. I have even had suits explain what I am doing. It is nice to know your cover betting isn't wasted. I never saw 1 change what they were doing that I can remember. Just as well because it wouldn't help. I have had some start proportional betting to my bets on very rare occasions. I guess there are some that aren't clueless. I usually don't stay long when that starts happening.

[Nyne]

You've got to be joking right? You make it sound as if the player who is playing BIG because they want to is doing something wrong just because they may have the resources. There is no reason to have a guilty conscience when nothing illegal has been done. No "Minority Reports" Tom Cruise.

I think you are confusing what I said. I don't think they are doing anything wrong. I wouldn't be an AP if I felt there was something wrong about it. But being right about something and following the law doesn't mean you won't be arrested and charged. In this business, we are more likely than most people to be arrested and charged for something we didn't do because of the negative perception many LEOs and prosecutors have of us. Think about any of the big name players, and think about how many of them have either been arrested or who have had friends who were arrested. It's an unfortunate reality of this business that, even if we obey the law, we can't be sure we won't spend a night in jail at some point in our career. I don't like it, and I wish it would change, but it is something big players should prepare for. Counters in places like Vegas don't have much to worry about, but players using advanced (legal) techniques shouldn't ignore that possibility.

[Ouchez]

I'll remember that the next time the dealer stiffs the players by giving them lousy penetration.

If you only play STing games who cares?

O

[moo321]

You've got to be joking right? You make it sound as if the player who is playing BIG because they want to is doing something wrong just because they may have the resources. There is no reason to have a guilty conscience when nothing illegal has been done. No "Minority Reports" Tom Cruise.

You're commenting on how things should be. And I agree. Nyne is commenting on how things are. And I also agree.

[Ouchez]

An AP is someone who walks into the poker room at 3:00 am in the morning after a night of playing BJ to take advantage of tired poker players, beats them and wins a nice amount of cash from the other players. In addition with making your casino buddy who came with you walk 1/3 of a mile or further, back to the hotel room at a different casino at 5 am because he cannot drag you off the poker table after telling him so beforehand. Then standing up after finishing the session and telling your opponents that you just crushed at the table that the objective was to take their money and leave a winner with a smile on your face.

If it was only that simple, keep dreamin my friend!

O

[Blitzkrieg]

If it was only that simple, keep dreamin my friend!

O

Haha it's not a dream this is reality. That's what happened and how it went down within the last few days. My buddy just couldn't keep up with me, and I'm not slowing my play down for anybody. I kinda felt bad that he rolled his ankle on his walk back to the hotel room, he told me that he would stop to look back as cars drove by to see if it was me, stopping to pick him up but I was too busy raking in chips to be concerned for his walk back to the room. That walk back must have been like a Bataan Death March or a walk of shame for my buddy. He understands though.

It was a funny cast of characters at this poker table. I could tell that they had seen to many movies on gambling as some of the players were doing the same shit they did in this particular movie, it was comical as well as the arguments from people getting under the skin of other players at the table.

[Blitzkrieg]

If you only play STing games who cares?

O

Good point. I've learned that I'm not good enough yet to shuffle track effectively in the casino at BJ. From my latest adventure the hand shuffles that I seen were not the most complex shuffles compared to some of the other dealers from past trips. I'm learning their procedures for shuffling so I guess I'll have to roll my sleeves up and really work on it if I want to get better.

[Ouchez]

Good point. I've learned that I'm not good enough yet to shuffle track effectively in the casino at BJ. From my latest adventure the hand shuffles that I seen were not the most complex shuffles compared to some of the other dealers from past trips. I'm learning their procedures for shuffling so I guess I'll have to roll my sleeves up and really work on it if I want to get better.

The only limitations are the ones you place on yourself.

O

[Ouchez]

Haha it's not a dream this is reality. That's what happened and how it went down within the last few days. My buddy just couldn't keep up with me, and I'm not slowing my play down for anybody. It was a funny cast of characters at this poker table. I could tell that they had seen to many movies on gambling, it was comical as well as the arguments from people getting under the skin of other players.

It can be alot of fun.

O

[Blitzkrieg]

Must an AP method be legal and/or ethical?

Since the stock market is the biggest casino in the world is High Frequency Trading ethical? What about when they have to halt trading for a period of time throughout a trading day to "fix" their machines?

Casinos have shown us in the past and present that they do not always operate in a legal or ethical way when it comes to their customers. They have a long standing history of negligence that Ajax cannot get rid of. They feed alcoholic drinks to the patrons for free so they can lose their inhibitions so some customers are in a weakened state. The casinos love to feed on patrons who are in a weakened state but it is a choice that the individual makes. Why should an AP operate in a legal or ethical way when attaining an advantage over the house or other players involved in a private game? If the advantage is there people and corporations will exploit it and use it to their benefit. Look at the Ivey case as an example. They sure didn't mind taking his losing bets at the table even though he crushed the house and the sore losers that they are, dealt it out. Only to have a kangaroo kourt decide in the houses favor. I wonder if the judges wore knickers with powdered wigs and curls.

I'm sure card mechanics are not going to operate in a legal or ethical way to gain their advantage if they have a chance to touch and deal the cards. I don't operate in an ethical way when I play poker in the club for a cash prize when I can spy cards in the deck and know where they are in the deck after the cut and if they will come into play or not, or in a private home game where cash is on the line. I only operate in an ethical way only when I deal the cards. I really don't want to fix the people that I play with outside of the casino and show 100% of them how to properly shuffle a deck of cards but it would make for a better game and keep the integrity of the game intact. Most of the people wouldn't have the time if you told them how to properly shuffle a deck, they'll just go back to their bridge shuffle and destroy the deck faster. A player wouldn't be afforded an advantage like that in casino poker unless the ASM is down and they have superb shuffle tracking skills. But sometimes depending on the dealer and how high they pitch the cards to the players and the angle in which the card travels though the air, a player can spy another players cards at casino poker.

[Three]

I have seen many a broken nose in private games from people trying hard to spy cards (obviously contorting or staring at a vulnerable spot. It doesn't happen as much anymore. I guess if I played with a rougher crowd the penalty would be much worse. I only needed one bloody nose to learn my lesson as to what is acceptable. If they basically show you their cards so you have to look away not to see its one thing but making an extra effort to gather extra information is another.

[Blitzkrieg]

I have seen many a broken nose in private games from people trying hard to spy cards (obviously contorting or staring at a vulnerable spot. It doesn't happen as much anymore. I guess if I played with a rougher crowd the penalty would be much worse. I only needed one bloody nose to learn my lesson as to what is acceptable. If they basically show you their cards so you have to look away not to see its one thing but making an extra effort to gather extra information is another.

So what happened when you got punched in the nose? What did you get accused of, being too good for them? It seems like you were playing with a rough crowd, or maybe just a sore loser was at the table. If someone attempted to throw a punch at me in a private game it would probably be the last time they do it to anyone after I get finished with them. I don't have to be a contortionist to gain extra information over opponents in a private game depending on how the deck is being handled. Peoples own sloppiness with how they shuffle and deal the deck will be enough to give a player all the information they need, all a player has to do is pay attention.

If someone is showing you their hand it's their own damn fault that they didn't protect their hand. I had to correct a player last night who was dealing in this league I play in for cash money, the dumbass didn't even square up the deck and then he was tilting the deck at an angle to where the player to his right and the players sitting in front of him could see what was being dealt. I have even had to correct a few poker dealers in the casino if I think their pitch is too high and other players who are in a position can potentially see the bottoms of my hole cards. I'll jump on a poker dealers ass in a NY minute if I see that, especially a professional casino dealer.

[Norm]

Agree with TThree. In many private Poker games, if you try to see an opponent's cards, you better have gills.