What is an advantage player/advantage play?
Perhaps we need to define AP. Aspects like legality and ethicality have been mentioned. Must an AP method be legal and/or ethical? Before posting a poll, what other aspects might we consider in the definition?
"I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse
Not meaning to be a wise *** but advantage play means exactly that. Why can it not be either legal or illegal?Originally Posted by Norm
Now when it comes to ethics, there are differing opinions on what is/isn't ethical but AP has only one definition that I'm aware of.
Last edited by muffdiver; 10-08-2014 at 07:36 AM.
Legal is black and white. If its not legal you are a cheat not an AP. Ethical is grey. Any legal method that allows you to have a positive expectation in the casino is advantage play. Some AP play is just frowned upon like masturbating on an airplane. Just don't call it jacking off and you should be fine.
Legal is black and white. If its not legal you are a cheat not an AP. Ethical is grey. Any legal method that allows you to have a positive expectation in the casino is advantage play. Some AP play is just frowned upon like masturbating on an airplane. Just don't call it jacking off and you should be fine.
Let us stick to acceptable terms," Masturbating" is an accepted legal term, "jacking off" is a crude street term and should be avoided.
Also the term, "Blow Job", is to be avoided at all costs, but may be replaced with "Oral Pleasure".
Please follow these guidelines to maintain the credibility and decorum of this site.
O
Terminology....ahhh. You can call it whatever you like. The important thing to me is receiving regularly.
Ok, back to topic at hand. Cheating, or use of illegal plays does fall under the definition of advantage play. But, I hate that it does. This is exactly the issue that the casinos have been trying to sell for years and that we have been fighting against. So why illegal methods are technically, APing, I distingue between the two.
Now moving on the ethics. I really struggle with this. Obviously a very personal and individual issue. My own 'grey area', covers things that other APs are doing regularly. Nothing illegal, but it's just not me. The casino IS responsible for protecting their games and such.
What I do find amazing is the number of people, and I am not referring to anyone in particular, but many APs definition of right and wrong seems to be altered when they enter a casino, as if passing through that door means anything goes. A couple of examples: You go to CVS and buy something and the cashier gives you the wrong change vs the dealer mispayouts. In both cases it is a low level employee, making a human error, that they may be held personally responsible for, but unscientifically, I suspect many more of us take the money inside a casino.Example number two: You are out in town when an elderly lady trying to put away her money drops a $10 bill vs in a casino, you see an elderly confused player leave $10 credits on a machine. Many people would handle this differently, when it is exactly the same thing.
I make my living in casinos, doing things that are completely legal and that I am comfortable with (and at times the bar for that second qualification has moved), but I try very hard not to let the casino environment change me. I know right from wrong (by my standards) and what is wrong outside the casino doors, doesn't become right, inside.
The latter is actually illegal in most jurisdictions and the former is illegal in all jurisdictions. This is not an ethical issue but a legal issue. It is illegal to take property belonging to another. It is called stealing. Just because the person may not realize you stole from them doesn't make it legal. You want that "found" property to be legally yours you take it to the police station and turn it in. If nobody claims it within a set time limit it is now legally your property. The jurisdictions I am familiar with that period is a month.
I don't wish to sidetrack the thread but back to this BJ thing. The clinical term would be "fellatio" and not "oral pleasure" because oral pleasure could mean a variety of things, such as handing your girlfriend a candy bar in which you provide her with "oral pleasure". Envision me getting a phone call from Molly Ringwald telling me to stop by for her piano lesson and some oral pleasure. I exceed the speed limit and hurry up to get there because I've been waiting for some BJ action (not the kind you get in the casino) from her for some time now. I get there and find that she is making grilled cheese sandwiches and it becomes painfully obvious that this is what she meant by "oral pleasure".Let us stick to acceptable terms," Masturbating" is an accepted legal term, "jacking off" is a crude street term and should be avoided.
Also the term, "Blow Job", is to be avoided at all costs, but may be replaced with "Oral Pleasure".
Please follow these guidelines to maintain the credibility and decorum of this site.
O
I try not to show how disappointed I am and begin playing the piano. She brings a vase of roses and places them on the piano as I am playing and asks how I like them. I reply, "The roses on the piano are very nice but I'd much prefer tulips on my organ!"
Last edited by Tarzan; 10-12-2014 at 09:54 PM.
All of my AP is legal, but is it ethical? Depends on who you ask - I'm sure that many in the casino industry would say all AP is unethical. I think many things the casinos do are not ethical and some of the things they do are illegal. The casino is a den of thieves, and I'm sure they think of me as one.
I am beginning to think that casinos are moving away from the thinking of CCing and STing as being cheating, and are developing a grudging respect for these SKILLZ, and often exhibit that when you are backed off. I think HCing is a different story. I have at times been treated with respect and almost celebrity status by dealers and floor after, during, and before a playing session. This has not been the case in years past, however.
Mofungoo, do not fret, I sincerely doubt you are viewed as a thief by the casino, but then again alot of that has to do with perception, and personality can change perception a great deal.
O
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