77 VS 8 TC5
22 VS 8 TC5
33 VS 8 TC4
A8 VS 3 TC5
A9 VS 6 TC4
It seems these indices have cost me alot more money and heartache than anything else.
Also I floor my RC should I not be hitting 12 VS 5 RC-1 and indices related to that if flooring. I am using hi-lo and indices on CVBJ. Thank you.
I don't use any of those index plays. I play about 3 dozen and none of your list is on my list. At one time I did the A9 vs 5,6, but stopped doing so quite a while ago, as there is some heat associated with this play, similar to splitting 10's and I just don't need that. When I weigh risk vs reward, it comes up short.
I am sure you know that once you move outside of Don's Illustrious 18, and these are all pretty far outside, that any advantage from the plays diminish greatly. It's really just pennies, we are talking about. The exception would be if you are playing some really good single deck game or possibly a strong double deck game, then the index plays all become more important. Unfortunately, for really good single deck games, you need a time machine for the most part.
I find it hard to believe that these particular plays have really cost you as much as you think. I think there is selective memory at work here.
Since you are asking for opinions, mine is dump them all. But you might want to keep in mind that I am a proponent of simplicity. Others are sure to have a differing opinion.
Dump the 77v8 and 33v8. There is really nothing there and the key cards are neutral cards so the count has a very poor correlation to the play.Originally Posted by BlackHead
22v8 is a defensive split and has the same issue. The play revolves around the 8 and 9 density. These are neutral cards in most counts. The gain from the split is pretty small at TC 5 and 6. You should either dump this play or use a higher risk averse index. The index will be pretty high so you won't use it much.
A8 is a pretty good play which accumulates EV quickly after the index is exceeded. I would keep this play. Moving the index to +6 instead of +5 might help ease your mind but it is a well correlated index to the counted cards in HILO. This play is one that a side count of either 7's or aces would really help add to the EV gain.
A9v6 is another strongly correlated play but may cause some heat. A heat averse index might be in order here. Maybe an index of +5 or even +6 if you feel it is drawing heat.
Check here for the gain you are attempting on all but the last play. As you can see there is REALLY nothing there for the first 2 splits and little for the other pair split.
http://www.card-counting.com/cvcxonlineviewer3.htm
Last edited by Three; 09-11-2014 at 05:44 AM.
Thanks for your input, I am still a neophyte at the game with only 60 hours of casino play all in about a month and a half and man has it been a roller coaster. Ill admit to believing I was born on the right side of the bell curve as a am up about +450 units. Kewljason I wish selective memory was the problem I am 0-5 with the A8V5 index losing only 10 units thankfully, I spread to max bet 4x5 when playing with my girlfriend her using the ten count. I will take your advice on avoiding all the crazy doubles and splits unless as T3 said if it is correlated with the count go ahead and take it at the risk averse territory.
T3, thanks for the link as far as side counting 7's I wouldn't know how to use that information if I knew how to I would benefit from it by telling my partner to side count them as she is flawless at the ten count and is not playing unless the count is high. One more question, what is your opinion on flooring indices that are TC-1? what I am trying to say; there are indices on verite that are 0 and -1 and I heard that these indices are already floored so I am confused as to consider all RC-1, TC-1. Thank you.
There is little reason to use anything other than basic strategy for most of the splits. The exception would be the offensive splits (like 99 vs Ace). On the A8 vs 4,5,6 is a great play and does not, from my experience, generate much if any heat from anyone except a few other players, but those same players give heat for doubling A7 as well. A8 vs 3 begins to enter risk averse territory so if you're using EV maximizing index numbers you might add a few notches to them if you feel the play is just adding too much risk to your game. A9 may or may not be heaty, but not as heaty as a 10-10 split even though the play is roughly similar. It doesn't come up all that often but rather than just completely skipping it just raise the index from +4 to something like +7. You'll do it far less often but still get a good chunk of the possible EV from the deviation.
Remember, you don't have to make an absolute "either/or" type choice. You can simply raise the index number a few points to fit what you're trying to accomplish. That's where simulators come in. You can raise the index number and compare the change to your baseline strategy to see what the cost is for your particular betting scheme.
These are indices I used for Hi Lo:
77 v 8 TC +2
22 v 8 TC +6
A8 v {6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 7} TC {+1, +1, +3, +5, +9, +16}
10,10 v {6, 5, 4, 3, 2} TC {+5, +6, +7, +8, +10} (Indices should be one notch lower but I want to group 10,10 and A9.)
A9 v {6, 5, 4, 3, 2} TC {+5, +6, +7, +8, +10}
I think 33 v 8 index is incorrect.
I've had success splitting 9 vs A, from empirical(limited) knowledge the indices that seem logical in general have made me more money and have been a lot easier to remember. But the question that I really need answered asap before I head to the casino in a few hours. Indices like 12V5 TC-1, 9V3 TC-0,12V6 TC-0(S17),A4V4 TC-0..... do I simply floor all it all to TC-1 if the RC is -1 or do would it be a good idea in a six deck game to maybe wait until RC-2 with the exception of 16V10 and 12V14 which RC-1 is the trigger. Thank you.
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