APs and cardcounting

[MARILLION]

APs, who stick to card counting, probably got lucky in the very beginning of their AP carriers and managed to grow their bankrolls to levels that allowed them to never look back.They don't feel strong urges for changing their main weapon - card counting, and just continue doing it. They know well there is a tiny edge, it's a grind, it needs tons of hours and camouflage, but, hey, it brought them where they are right now.On the other hand, I believe, people, who had rough start with card counting, were more easily convinced to start looking for more powerful weapons. Do I have a point with this?

[Anton Chigurh]

I believe there are more than a few who pursue other AP opportunities but are tight-lipped, and maintain the outward appearance of a salamander.

[sagefr0g]

I believe there are more than a few who pursue other AP opportunities but are tight-lipped, and maintain the outward appearance of a salamander.

ribbit

[KJ]

I like winning with that tiny edge. I like that it's a grind. That is what the casino industry is based on....having a tiny edge and grinding it out against the player, so it's a good feeling to be able to turn the table and beat them at their own game, using their own game plan. I have tried a few things that produce bigger edges. But for one reason or another don't care for them as much. It is about money for me. But it's not all about money! My standard of a comfortable living is much lower than most peoples. I don't need to average 150-200 grand a year. I don't need to average 100 grand a year, although it is a milestone that I would like to hit one time, just to say I did so, that as yet..I haven't. I can live comfortable off of 40 grand a year and if that is what my yearly EV was and what I averaged per year, I would still do what I am doing. I am fortunate enough to be doing about double that EV and average over the last few years, so I am very very content with that. I play at a level that seems to be pretty well tolerated and like to think I have an idea of what I can and can't do to stay within a certain level where I have a good chance of achieving some longevity. So there is no need for me to be greedy and move up. Greed kills. I live by the sheering vs skinning philosophy. The idea that you can chop the tree down and use the wood to build something...one time, or you can simply pick an apple off that tree every day and enjoy the benefits of the tree for years to come.

This idea of being lucky at the very beginning is something I have thought about too. I think we were all lucky at the beginning. And that luck doesn't have to mean that we came out of the shoot, winning great amounts of money and never looked back. Since, I'll bet most of us were underfunded and probably unprepared, mentally and knowledge-wise, as well as financially. Just the fact that we didn't get wiped out early on was a very lucky development. Those that weren't so lucky, probably had second thoughts and gave up early on and aren't around this community to post about it.

[White Guy]

My first 2-3 months I decided to take up Card Countng semi full time I lost what was almost 50 max bets. I actually think it helped me though.

[First Normal Form]

I think many card counters who lose early on, simply stop being card counters.

Are there many full-time card counters, who are only card counters?

Very few people would make the jump to full-time AP, just based on successful card counting. Yet full-time AP makes it easier to go after non-card counting opportunities. It's a bit of a Catch-22. Part-time, or starting out as a fresh card counter, you have to hit a lot of longshots to move into other AP. You have to survive the card counting hard knocks, be able to identify AP plays, scout constantly to successfully find AP plays which is an uncertain and possibly zero EV prospect, it has to be good enough to learn an esoteric and perhaps difficult new skill, it might need to be exploitable solo, you need the bankroll for it, and after all that the boss wants the TPS report on his desk by Friday, which means you can't head off to get the play down. And you're usually doing this all by your lonesome.

Card counting opportunities abound. You can head off to many destinations and be assured of many mediocre card counting opportunities. Many other plays are short-lived, hard to find, or hard to exploit. Having a network of friends/teammates who will share tit-for-tat on opportunities makes finding and exploiting a series of short-lived opportunities possible to sustain. Long-term opportunities can be difficult for a solo card counter to analyze, and difficult to learn the skill to exploit.

[Coyote]

I would say that the answers are as varied as the personalities involved. Many of us are not pro APs and cannot put in the time required to scout or we are not on teams to take advantage of all the opportunities out there. I would agree with Anton that many straight count and take advantage of other opportunities as they arise. Personally, if my lifestyle was more conducive, I would be out there taking all I could get, using all legal means and be teamed-up. But, alas I play 95% @ 1-2% and 5% @ > 1-2% sigh

[MARILLION]

I like winning with that tiny edge. I like that it's a grind. That is what the casino industry is based on....having a tiny edge and grinding it out against the player, so it's a good feeling to be able to turn the table and beat them at their own game, using their own game plan. I have tried a few things that produce bigger edges. But for one reason or another don't care for them as much. It is about money for me. But it's not all about money! My standard of a comfortable living is much lower than most peoples. I don't need to average 150-200 grand a year. I don't need to average 100 grand a year, although it is a milestone that I would like to hit one time, just to say I did so, that as yet..I haven't. I can live comfortable off of 40 grand a year and if that is what my yearly EV was and what I averaged per year, I would still do what I am doing. I am fortunate enough to be doing about double that EV and average over the last few years, so I am very very content with that. I play at a level that seems to be pretty well tolerated and like to think I have an idea of what I can and can't do to stay within a certain level where I have a good chance of achieving some longevity. So there is no need for me to be greedy and move up. Greed kills. I live by the sheering vs skinning philosophy. The idea that you can chop the tree down and use the wood to build something...one time, or you can simply pick an apple off that tree every day and enjoy the benefits of the tree for years to come. This idea of being lucky at the very beginning is something I have thought about too. I think we were all lucky at the beginning. And that luck doesn't have to mean that we came out of the shoot, winning great amounts of money and never looked back. Since, I'll bet most of us were underfunded and probably unprepared, mentally and knowledge-wise, as well as financially. Just the fact that we didn't get wiped out early on was a very lucky development. Those that weren't so lucky, probably had second thoughts and gave up early on and aren't around this community to post about it.

I respect what KJ has done and still doing. APs like you, KJ, are really rear species. At the end what matters is to get the money. How you do it is less important. And if there is still some fun in the process is only a bonus.

[Chacal]

I respect what KJ has done and still doing. APs like you, KJ, are really rear species. At the end what matters is to get the money. How you do it is less important. And if there is still some fun in the process is only a bonus.

Unlike KJ, I see no fun whatsoever in being a "rear species"

[Meistro123]

i hate it when i slip up in my verbiage and make an ass of myself