Shoot , there was a guy on here claimin' he got backed off and he didn't even know how to count cards ... he said that he just played perfect Basic Strategy (in High stakes / high limit if I recall, not too sure) , sounds like the OP actually is a skilled player with talent, so it comes as no surprise after what I've seen... I hope I don't get Backed off anywhere , that would suck ...
“It seemed to me ... that any civilization that had so far lost its head as to need to include a set of detailed instructions for use in a package of toothpicks, was no longer a civilization in which I could live and stay sane.”
And why is that? Can't someone be new AND trustworthy? Such generalities..........LOL Some of us DO want to learn but have just decided to join.......Originally Posted by BJGenius007
Actually, as a green chip better (and essentially playing for comps), I have been told/backed off (but not prohibited) from playing by friendly pit bosses who told me that I would have to limit my spread to 3-1 after he counted cards in discard tray on a hand held double deck game. This has been at Trop years ago and Mirage some time ago. What he told me later was that the fluctuation and spread "technically" mattered to his bosses. It wasn't the amount so much they looked for as the spread. So maybe OP's situation was the 5-1 spread v. the low limit bet. I have heard that they look for anything over 4-1 spread. Which I have to agree with as some of the spreads you guys mention like 8-1 or 12-1 sure gather attention where I have played in the past.
Last edited by MJGolf; 08-13-2014 at 11:47 AM.
This also happened to me red chipping, but at a much smaller store. Graveyard hours wonging in at +1 and jumped in aggressively with two hands and sometimes jump in with 1 hand and quickly jumped it to two hands based on the count. I was completely obvious but I didn't care because I too thought they didnt care about red chippers. I learned my lesson though to never take it lightly, I suggest you do the same as well.
Casinos don't like winners period whether pink, res, green, or black chip and they love to back you off while you are behind. They know you will beat them eventually so they back you off. I believe the same applies to betting only red because they're scared that one day you will have a bankroll and do damage to them. Start taking it serious and watch out for all types of heat, and don't think just because you're a low level betting player they won't back you off. Let it be a lesson to you, just like it was to me, and is the reason why now I rather not burn my face for low stakes and save up a huge bankroll to not only make a decent EV but maximize it before getting the boot.
I was playing a while back at a table with a $5 minimum on a 2-deck game. The count went up in the 2nd shuffle and I bet $30. The dealer said "checks play." Checks play on a $30 bet? Guess the spread does matter in some places regardless of the amount of money.
Can feel the sweat on those chips.
I've never heard of anyone getting backed off at mystic with that spread. You must have ran into a smart pit (there aren't many) or a bored surveillance guy, or maybe you were caught at the same table as a big betting counter they were watching. Something doesn't add up.
Yeah exactly...I've never seen anyone backed off at ML. I routinely spread 1-15 there as a red chipper with very little heat over the years. Almost always wong out at negative counts and will often ask for a shuffle if the count tanks and Im playing HU. One of the most friendly AP casinos I've played at. Something don't seem right at all with this story. Now if it was TI I'd understand but OP shouldn't be playing there anyways. They have no friendly AP games anymore. Last time I was there almost all their games are continuous shuffle. The 4 deck game is cut off 1 1/2 decks and horrendous rules. It's a shame TI used to have some really good games back in the day and lots of action. Dealers look miserable there since they no longer pool tips.
I think there's a lot of bad advice in this thread. In fact, there may be some downright horrible advice.
OP, you got backed off because you were counting cards. It happens. Doing things like adding cover plays, or not doing index plays, is essentially choosing to give up money in the hopes of buying longevity. You don't do that for a 1% edge for a non-professional, red-chip level player. If you were playing a 10% game, or you were a full-time black chip player, that might be a different story.
Just keep playing. Figure out if there was anything that tipped them off. The only adjustment I would even consider is not splitting tens at a place you regularly play. I spit tens at places I don't plan to play a lot, but it is fairly aggressive for a place you are regularly playing.
I strongly disagree that you should stop wonging out, stop back-counting, or do other things that cause a substantial loss in revenue.
The Cash Cow.
I agree with moo on this. I didn't mean to stop back-counting but mix things up a bit. If you are a regular fixture in the place and you always do the same it makes it easy for them to pick you off. I never liked back-counting much so I never had to worry about doing it too much when I did it. If you keep mixing it up, a little Mr perfect and some white rabbit without being to familiar a face to the pit and surveillance you will be fine.
Every AP should know what the responsibilities of the staff are so they know the difference between heat and SOP. Many see heat were there is none because they don't understand what they are seeing is a casino employee doing fulfilling his responsibilities for any player. Reading attitude and spotting unusual activity is the key to distinguishing between heat and normal procedures. Sometimes a lack of interest in you when they should be checking on you as part of SOP can mean the EITS is watching. If miss-pays aren't corrected by a phone call from the EITS it can be a clue your table is not being watched actively. Conversely a call to correct the error means they are watching your table and maybe specifically you.
My advice is mix it up more and learn the duty of everyone in the pit. Pay attention to what is happening versus what should be happening and the attitude of those performing their duties. Most places will prefer to give you some subtle clues to see if you will leave voluntarily rather than do the additional work of backing you off. If this happens leave and lay low for a while. The more they perceive you as a real threat to the bottom line the longer you will be remembered. When you go back avoid those that were in the pit when you got the subtle cues. You can then establish how hot you still are. I usually play a little more conservative when it comes to casino tolerances at this point. Often I just won too much, visited too often, stayed too long, won too frequently, or spread too aggressively. It isn't always easy to know which one it is.
It's like asking how and why a huge warehouse would go to the trouble to catch a lowly mouse. After all, how much could he eat???
its like my house. Every once in a while, I get the urge to do a thorough cleaning and that bit of dirt under the sink gets cleaned up.
i am expecting something like it to happen to me. I go to this local casino every single day for exactly an hour and while I may lose $100 every few days, I probably net about $150 a week. There are much bigger players there but they might decide any day to kick me out. It's like if you were a shop owner and become aware that one of your customer is regularly shop lifting dome small inexpensive thing. At some point you will get fed up!!
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