Simple Shuffle Tracking

**Player1** · 08-12-2014, 04:14 PM

I would like to discuss some details regarding shuffle tracking. If anyone has time and who is knowledgeable about the subject, I would like to bend your ear. Please PM me or if you give me your user name, I will PM you.

**Skull** · 08-12-2014, 05:15 PM

I didn't know this book, but I took a look at Amazon and it seems to be very interesting. Thanks for pointing it out.
Whenever I am able to understand what you wrote, I intend to collaborate

P.S.: The foreword by Arnold Snyder is fantastic!!

**Player1** · 08-12-2014, 05:20 PM

Thank you and I agree! Please don't hesitate to ask me questions to clarify anything.

**Skull** · 08-12-2014, 05:29 PM

My ignorance on the subject is such that I don't even know what questions to ask, I am afraid...

But I intend to buy this and other books on the subject really soon, so hopefully, I'll be enlightened

**Player1** · 08-12-2014, 05:36 PM

Very cool. The Mason book sparked my interest.

**Skull** · 08-12-2014, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Player1

Feel free to discuss the ace/ten cuts with me as well.

All BIG mysteries to me as yet, unfortunately.

Keep learning and I'll catch up somehow, sometime.

Best of luck!

**bjarg** · 08-12-2014, 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Player1

I've been reading Mason Malmuth's blackjack essays and i really enjoyed "Card Domination" (simple shuffle tracking)....

This was not an intelligent post.
You are openly posting and writing about a very sensitive subject with quite a lot of details.
Me, myself I couldnt care less about what gets posted here, but I can assure you there are quite a few members here that will probably feel very uncomfortable with your post.
if you want help and dont want to piss off those who can actually help you (which are very few), I would edit that post and try to find somebody to help you by PM or something.
Good luck.

**Bodarc** · 08-12-2014, 06:43 PM

How could you possibly know the running count of the 3 quarter decks that are mixed with your 1/4 deck since in a 6 deck shoe there are 22 remaining quarter decks which might be picked up? Also,I think you would have to have a very simple shuffle which does not seem to be in current use at the casinos I have visited.

**Skull** · 08-12-2014, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by bjarg

I can assure you there are quite a few members here that will probably feel very uncomfortable with your post.

My last post was going to be:

All BIG mysteries to me as yet, unfortunately.
But one thing I managed to learn so far:
These are very delicate subjects to discuss in an open forum.
Take care not to decrease your own edge (and other's).
Keep learning and I'll catch up somehow, sometime.

Then I decided that someone with actual experience in the subject would post something if necessary, like you did.

But I wonder, how really sensitive are these posts as long as they do not discuss actual conditions encountered in a given casino? Or the specifics of given shuffles?

I mean, these books are there for anyone to buy and, specially, for the casino industry to read, right? You just don't discuss these techniques AT ALL in an open forum?

I ask you this so that next time I will know for sure what to respond and so that I, myself, won't piss off anyone.

Thanks in advance for any further clarifications.

**Three** · 08-12-2014, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Bodarc

How could you possibly know the running count of the 3 quarter decks that are mixed with your 1/4 deck since in a 6 deck shoe there are 22 remaining quarter decks which might be picked up? Also,I think you would have to have a very simple shuffle which does not seem to be in current use at the casinos I have visited.

10/22 = .45454545

Now does that number look familiar from earlier in this thread.

**Bodarc** · 08-12-2014, 07:10 PM

Three that makes the assumption that the 10 is averaged and that all 22 of the 1/4 decks have the same count. I don't see how you can make that assumption.

**Three** · 08-12-2014, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Bodarc

Three that makes the assumption that the 10 is averaged and that all 22 of the 1/4 decks have the same count. I don't see how you can make that assumption.

What other assumption does a counter make. A counter assumes the unseen cards are equally distributed thereby coming up with a TC to base his bets and decisions on. Would you assume a TC of 0 for the unseen 5.5 decks if the RC is -10 for the first 1/2 deck you have seen out of a shoe or would you come up with with a TC of -10/5.5. Obviously a rhetorical question because the answer is obvious. That is the reason you assume the cards are mixing with the average of their removal across all the unseen cards. Whether you are counting or shuffle tracking you make the sonly assumption you can about the unseen cards. You know that assumption is probably wrong but it is the best assumption you can make. Your whole ramp is based on following this assumption. All those high cards may be behind the cut card but you assume they are equally distributed among the unseen cards.

**Bodarc** · 08-12-2014, 08:10 PM

When I count, I visually see that an excess of small cards has been played. I know there is an excess of high cards remaining. I do not base my count on some imaginary average.