Card counting alone no longer is viable.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

Yes to a degree it's become so. There amount the dealer doesn't dealer out simply nullifies any effectiveness. I can prove it. Take a deck of the tens and put them out of play - that's exactly what they've done.

Has this happen to anybody? You count the cards and the shoe is nice and good. But as you stay on you 12s and 13s, the dealer does not bust. And you finally come to a red card - what can you do?

**hitthat16** · 08-10-2014, 10:45 PM

Blackjack can still be beaten with card counting even if not all of the cards are dealt. Good counters look for games where as many cards as possible are dealt.

Blackjack cannot be beaten by martingale. Period.

What happens on that 5 grand bet when you double down and lose? So just stop it, please.

**RobinHood21** · 08-10-2014, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

It is true that a faster dealer can make the casino more money, but do you agree that a card counter inaccuracy rate is quite large. Also how can that "crazy game" not be play friendly. What would you consider a player friendly game?

Part 1. Yes, there are many people that think they can count and can in fact count (counting is very simple). But the accuracy in which they apply their knowledge is quite often misplaced. Along with their bets and BR's.

Part 2. The "crazy game"... Even money on BJ's gets you -2.27% off the top. SD gets you +0.48%. LS, or I'll give ES which it may well be gets you +0.39%. Still not "friendly". You need to give a full set of rules to back your claims.

Part 3. SD, 3/2, DOA, DAS, LS, H17 (Barona's old HL SD)... The House Edge is basically nothing (less than 0.1% if played perfectly), especially if you factor in the cash back or gift/gas cards they used to offer for rated play. Aria and most MGM properties high limit tables are generally "player friendly" (minus the heat). The HE is around 0.2%.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 10:55 PM

Is that not the same logic. What happens when the count is good and you lose - Doubling down on a double down is the same thing. We have a perceived advantage. If we lose we lose, but 6 out of 10 times we'll win that bet - and that good enough.

**Solo player** · 08-10-2014, 11:13 PM

blackjackwarrior,

Would a Martingale progression work for any game? How about 3-Card Monty? If so I'm interested! Post more info ASAP!!

**hitthat16** · 08-10-2014, 11:27 PM

The first difference is that we knew we had an advantageous situation because we were counting. With martingale we don't know that information.

The second difference is as a counter we only bet a tiny percentage of our bankroll even we a huge advantage, instead of betting thousands in order to try to win a measly 5 or 10 bucks!! Counters can keep going when they lose, martingale players go broke and can't recover when they lose because the house has a maximum bet!

**Nyne** · 08-10-2014, 11:33 PM

Serious question: Why are you here? If card counting is a sham and can't possibly work, and you already have all the answers, what do you hope to gain from this site?

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by RobinHood21

Part 1. Yes, there are many people that think they can count and can in fact count (counting is very simple). But the accuracy in which they apply their knowledge is quite often misplaced. Along with their bets and BR's.

Part 2. The "crazy game"... Even money on BJ's gets you -2.27% off the top. SD gets you +0.48%. LS, or I'll give ES which it may well be gets you +0.39%. Still not "friendly". You need to give a full set of rules to back your claims.

Part 3. SD, 3/2, DOA, DAS, LS, H17 (Barona's old HL SD)... The House Edge is basically nothing (less than 0.1% if played perfectly), especially if you factor in the cash back or gift/gas cards they used to offer for rated play. Aria and most MGM properties high limit tables are generally "player friendly" (minus the heat). The HE is around 0.2%.

There is no accuracy in card counting. You can infer that there is a higher chance that a ten is going to come out next because a lot of small cards have been dealt - but it's been diluted. There is an advantage in card counting but that also cannot overcome the house edge. You simply have to rely on too many things to go right with each placement of the cards to what comes out. As for their bets and bankrolls, what do they do wrong? To say that they are losing because they are doing it wrong is invalid - there is no accuracy in card counting.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-11-2014, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by Nyne

Serious question: Why are you here? If card counting is a sham and can't possibly work, and you already have all the answers, what do you hope to gain from this site?

I'm here to have a debate. This is a blackjack discussion, is it not? We here to try devise a strategy to beat blackjack. And I feel that because people hold card counting to such unfounded deference, there has been no ingenuity while the casinos have eroded our advantages. There's guys on this forum who's lost countless times and the response is a perfunctory - keep at it.

**hitthat16** · 08-11-2014, 12:10 AM

We have to keep at it because we have a long term edge over the house. I'll say it again. Card counting overcomes the house edge! We play thousands of hands no matter the result because we win more the more we play. No debate. It's been proven over and over again. Now go play your martingale system. Clearly you've found the holy grail.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-11-2014, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by hitthat16

We have to keep at it because we have a long term edge over the house. I'll say it again. Card counting overcomes the house edge! We play thousands of hands no matter the result because we win more the more we play. No debate. It's been proven over and over again. Now go play your martingale system. Clearly you've found the holy grail.

Response to my comments is not indicative of a system viable under closer scrutiny. Again am I wrong to opine that card counting is extremely inaccurate. And because it is inaccurate, it is not so effective.

**RobinHood21** · 08-11-2014, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

There is no accuracy in card counting. You can infer that there is a higher chance that a ten is going to come out next because a lot of small cards have been dealt - but it's been diluted. There is an advantage in card counting but that also cannot overcome the house edge. You simply have to rely on too many things to go right with each placement of the cards to what comes out. As for their bets and bankrolls, what do they do wrong? To say that they are losing because they are doing it wrong is invalid - there is no accuracy in card counting.

I'm finished with you. Your education in card counting is diluted. You have somewhat a tunnel vision. And don't grasp the entire concept. You fall into "Part 1" of my previous post.

**hitthat16** · 08-11-2014, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

Response to my comments is not indicative of a system viable under closer scrutiny. Again am I wrong to opine that card counting is extremely inaccurate. And because it is inaccurate, it is not so effective.

Yes, you are wrong.