Card counting alone no longer is viable.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

I disagree. It is a fact that no betting system can overcome a negative EV situation (house advantage). All they do is change the loss distribution patterns.

That is true that no betting system has overcome a negative EV situation but how is being able to double down on higher bets because of the progressive betting progression a way of changing the loss distribution patterns? There is no relevancy?

KJ · 08-10-2014, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

That is true that no betting system has overcome a negative EV situation but how is being able to double down on higher bets because of the progressive betting progression a way of changing the loss distribution patterns? There is no relevancy?

I am sorry. I am not willing to play this game. Maybe others will engage.

**Three** · 08-10-2014, 07:59 PM

Doubling down is already figured into the house edge.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

I am sorry. I am not willing to play this game. Maybe others will engage.

What did I say wrong. How is it a fact that no betting system can overcome a negative EV situation? The double downs can magnify a betting progression. That is exactly what happens when you use the Martingale System, namely its progressive betting progression, in blackjack. You bet one, you lose. You bet two, you lose. You bet four, you get a chance to double down. You make more than the one unit playing with the Martingale elsewhere.

**Three** · 08-10-2014, 08:04 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

How is it a fact that no betting system can overcome a negative EV situation?

Because no matter how many negative EV bets you ad together the result is still negative. Unless you change bet size with fluctuating advantage you are making all bet sizes on average at a negative EV. Negative plus a negative always equals a negative. Betting more is just a larger negative to be added to the already negative number.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Because no matter how many negative EV bets you ad together the result is still negative. Unless you change bet size with fluctuating advantage you are making all bet sizes on average at a negative EV. Negative plus a negative always equals a negative. Betting more is just a larger negative to be added to the already negative number.

I would agrue that a progressive betting progression magnifies the double downs. The double downs allows for a re-bet in the progression. From the ethos of the Martingale, you only win a unit - the double down allows for so much more.

KJ · 08-10-2014, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

What did I say wrong. How is it a fact that no betting system can overcome a negative EV situation? The double downs can magnify a betting progression. That is exactly what happens when you use the Martingale System, namely its progressive betting progression, in blackjack. You bet one, you lose. You bet two, you lose. You bet four, you get a chance to double down. You make more than the one unit playing with the Martingale elsewhere.

Table limits, friend. Blackjack games have table limits. Minimum wager $10 - Max wager $1000. Minimum wager $25 - Maximum wager $5000. Typically by the 8th or 9th double up round you would need to wager over what is the table max. And believe me, anyone who plays BJ regularly, experiences more than 9 losses in a row fairly frequently.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 08:26 PM

Originally Posted by KJ

Table limits, friend. Blackjack games have table limits. Minimum wager $10 - Max wager $1000. Minimum wager $25 - Maximum wager $5000. Typically by the 8th or 9th double up round you would need to wager over what is the table max. And believe me, anyone who plays BJ regularly, experiences more than 9 losses in a row fairly frequently.

I'm not saying you can beat blackjack with the Martingale System. What I am saying is that because of the progressive betting progression of the Martingale System - 10, 20, 40, 80, 160, 320 - we will be able to double down on those bets. It is the progressive betting progression that gives us that advantage, and it is an advantage never before mentioned.

KJ · 08-10-2014, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

It is the progressive betting progression that gives us that advantage, and it is an advantage never before mentioned.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 08:31 PM

You laugh but where am I wrong? Why don't you show me?

**seriousplayer** · 08-10-2014, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by blackjackwarrior

I would agrue that a progressive betting progression magnifies the double downs. The double downs allows for a re-bet in the progression. From the ethos of the Martingale, you only win a unit - the double down allows for so much more.

How does the Martingale magnifies the double downs when it don't tell you whether or not you should double or is the double down is profitable or not? Suppose you have a very big bets out when the casino have an advantage and the situation calls for a double down you will lose most double downs since the house have an edge. How would you know it will be a good and successful double down when the Martingale does not gauge the favorability of the deck? In count systems there are index number that tells whether or not a double down situation will be profitable or not but the Martingale does not provide that information.

**blackjackwarrior** · 08-10-2014, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by seriousplayer

How does the Martingale magnifies the double downs when it don't tell you whether or not you should double or is the double down is profitable or not? Suppose you have a very big bets out when the casino have an advantage and the situation calls for a double down. How would you know it will be a good and successful double down when the Martingale does not gauge the favorability of the deck? In count systems there are index number that tell whether or not a double down situation will be profitable or not but the Martingale does not provide that information.

First off, if you don't have the advantage, you don't double. It does it get sticky if you try to incorporate the Martingale System with card counting because again with the Martingale your force to make those bets no matter what. I just pointing out the possible advantage of the Martingale. Again I'm not say with the Martingale you can bet blackjack, but there's an accounted advantage. Magnification comes only when you double down on a favorable bet such as 6 and 4 vs a 6 with alot of small cards out.

**DM21** · 08-10-2014, 08:39 PM

Blackjack warrior, you need to stop posting and start studying the game. I am not sure if you are trolling on purpose or by accident but you definitely are.

So you finally get up to your $320 bet and you get a double. Let's say 11 vs 6, nice juicy double right? You get a 2 one your 11 for a total of 13. No problem the dealer is going to bust. Then the dealer has a 5 in the hole, uh oh

. His next card is a 5, YES!!!!! He is at 16, he has to bust. You are already counting the $640, thinking about how nice your stack is going to look. Here it comes, wait for it ........ an Ace. Sad game show music plays.

What do you bet next?