Transitioning to counting

[Skull]

if I had to hazard a guess, I'd say I psych myself out more than anything. Not enough confidence and all that. I have had no problems so far keeping up the count when at a live table. I just find my mind going blank at times, and I'm sure its all psychological.

I'd like to help you since I am a beginner and can probably relate much better to your problems than Tthree, for instance, but I don't understand what "going blank" means.

This is something that happens to me and MIGHT be what's going on with you. I like to run in a treadmill while counting using the CV app. Sometimes I get into such a state of concentration (meditation?) that I totally forget the count and begin thinking of completely different matters (my work, the way I spoke to my wife that morning, etc...), then suddenly a number appears in my mind, I kinda assume it is the RC and just keep updating it, just to reach the end of the shoe and find out I am CORRECT! I get very happy when that happens and I look forward to that kind of harmony all the time. What might be happening with you, since you stated that you have had no problems keeping the count, is that your mind floats like mine, but you fail to reassess the count, maybe because you got nervous for having floated and then fails to recognize that the number that subtly came to your mind afterwards was in fact the correct RC. That kind of phenomenon coupled with the crazy casino environment may affect you in different ways, but maybe (and that's a big maybe) something similar to that is happening to you.

With respect to confidence issues, only you will be able to get rid of them. What I do when I don't feel confident at something is to practice that exact thing until I can't get it wrong. If you count down a deck in an average time of 21 sec, practice until you can NOT count it in more than 21 sec. Actually, that's my situation, I can NOT count a deck in more than 21 sec, even if I try. My hands flip the cards faster than I want and I end up counting it in around 20 sec. Normally I am below 18 sec, down to 15 sec. So, as far as speed is concerned I am 100% confident. But as far as talking to different people about number-related subjects (stocks, etc...) while keeping the RC, deck estimating, true counting, applying my complex outcome-dependent bet ramp and sipping a beer, I am light years from becoming confident. That doesn't affect me though, because I know everything is a process. I will get there eventually and so will you. Maybe you should set clear and objective partial goals so as to track your progress. Then you could actually quantify how confident you can be with respect to your abilities.

But, in truth, please forget about not being confident; it is a waste of energy. Just go practice the damn thing until "being confident" does not cross your mind anymore. You just are. Period.

Best cards!

[SiMi]

Hi,

You wrote: "I just seem to develop some kind of mental block when I apply my counting skills to an actual game, be it for practice or in real time." and "my mind going blank at times..."
and you mention you have one or two mistakes when counting online with 6 decks.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the mental block and blank mind mean that your mind wanders from the fact that you're counting cards for a moment or two. Once you realize you've "lost concentration," there's a moment of panic while you worry you've lost the RC or done something stupid. Even if you manage to get back on track, you're aware you lost it for a second and this shakes your confidence.

If that's the case, then I can recall that happening to me when I first got back into counting. I originally learned to count on single deck games a long time ago and switched to 6 deck games a few years ago and found that I needed a MUCH longer period of concentration than I had been used to.

The way I got over that problem was to remove 1 card from a 6 deck shoe without looking at it and play "Dealer" at my home table to 3-6 hands for the entire shoe. I'd keep the RC and play all the hands properly without any betting. After I dealt the last card from the shoe, I'd note the count I ended on and then I would look at the 1 card I had removed at the beginning to see if it was "correct." In other words, if the removed card was High (-1), I should have ended the shoe with an RC of +1 because the High card would bring the RC (and TC) back to zero.

After a few weeks of that, I found I was able to increase to 8 and then 10 decks, etc. and hold the RC for more than enough time to finish a shoe. eventually, I developed the HABIT of ALWAYS counting the cards when I play Blackjack, just as I always breathe when I'm playing Blackjack. It became part of the game and not something "extra" I was doing while I played.

It's work for me to NOT count now. For example, if I sit down very late in a shoe in order to claim a good seat, it would be hard to NOT count the remaining cards and I go ahead and count them since it's easier to do so than to NOT do it.

I realized that SD had "spoiled" me and I had been thinking about counting before I switched to shoe games. Until you get to the point that NOT COUNTING is hard, it will be challenging to put up a good act. IMHO, in your practice at home, you should ALWAYS get the count correct. If you EVER have a shoe where you get the RC wrong, you are not ready. You need to keep practicing until getting the RC correct is not even a consideration.

To me, counting is the easiest part of card counting. The hard part is getting the money on the table without drawing unwanted attention. Nearly all of my efforts are centered on this part.

I hope this helps and best of luck!!

[Winnie D]

Thanks again guys for the replies. To address the "mind goes blank" statement, when I say that my mind goes blank, I'm afraid I don't have a real good answer. I can only say that I'll be in the middle of a shoe and one second the count is firmly in my head, and then it just. . .goes. The only answer I have is that I've had this kind of problem in other areas of my life. I can only think to chalk it up to short term memory loss after years of third shift work. One thing I'm working on is getting healthier and getting on a more regimented schedule so I can be more present and alert when I play. I'm also working at polishing my counting skills all the time, as well as learning the aspects of the game that are harder to me such as bet spreads and calculations. And speaking of which, if anyone knows of any literature that addresses that subject in layman's terms I'd be greatly appreciative. Anything beyond basic math for counting is way over my head, but that's another topic for another day. Thanks again.

[muckz]

Thanks again guys for the replies. To address the "mind goes blank" statement, when I say that my mind goes blank, I'm afraid I don't have a real good answer. I can only say that I'll be in the middle of a shoe and one second the count is firmly in my head, and then it just. . .goes. The only answer I have is that I've had this kind of problem in other areas of my life. I can only think to chalk it up to short term memory loss after years of third shift work. One thing I'm working on is getting healthier and getting on a more regimented schedule so I can be more present and alert when I play. I'm also working at polishing my counting skills all the time, as well as learning the aspects of the game that are harder to me such as bet spreads and calculations. And speaking of which, if anyone knows of any literature that addresses that subject in layman's terms I'd be greatly appreciative. Anything beyond basic math for counting is way over my head, but that's another topic for another day. Thanks again.

Arnold Snyder's books are very easy to read. He doesn't spend much time with math at all. If you are on a small bankroll, you need to be very careful with what you read and how it applies to your situation.

[Winnie D]

Thanks for the advice muckz. I'll look it up and give it a read.

[Nikky_Flash]

Winnie - if your mind goes blank like that , some people have success with imagining a giant number in front of them , or over the dealers head , etc ... maybe green for + RC and red or something for - RC , I've repeated the number as "sound" in my mind , or imagine myself repeating it without moving my lips ... just keep what your doing , actually sounds like your not doing half-bad ..

[Skull]

Hey Nikky!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDwER9QQwQ

[Pierce]

If you're doing a physical deck in 21 seconds, you've got me crushed in that regard and are well ahead of the curve. I don't believe most guys on here can count a deck down that fast physically. My average speed is around 25-26 seconds, and I feel like I'm on top of the world at that pace.

You're going to do just fine with that kind of speed.



Its what we are all here for. 2 or 3 months ago I was the new guy on the block, and now these guys have given me some of the best advice you could ever wish for, and its quickly molding me into a capable player. You will too if you practice hard enough and keep up the good work!

I should think most guys on here will be surpassing 20 seconds very easily. My PB is 14 seconds Hi-Lo and 17 seconds Zen. My playing partner can do similiar times aswell.
Most teams will ask for 20 seconds bare minimum. Of course its not the be all and end all of everything, I would say speed of playing decisions is more important. If you can plow through your hands superfast you will be playing much more hands per hour, thus increasing hourly EV.

[mcallister3200]

Speed in counting down a deck is just not a relevant skill at all IMO, it doesn't translate to how the game is played. Speed at being able to scan a table full of cards with 5-6 hands and come up with the count is.

[Nikky_Flash]

Hey Nikky!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqDwER9QQwQ

That cracked me up ... thanks for sharing that ...

How do we know that's an authentic one-legged duck and not just an impostor duck showing off for internet-attention? Or to get on Tosh.0 or AFV... I've known ducks to do that ...

I also noticed that the guy who owns that YouTube channel is wearing a Skull mask ... coincidence perhaps ?

[Cardplayer]

Hey counting community! I'm a poker player who just got recommended KnockOut BJ as the best book on the subject, I'm about 40 pages in and enthusiastic. I currently have a very primitive understanding of basic strategy(basically same understanding as the majority i.e."10"rule), what I've learned from helpful dealers or fellow players so I know I have a lot of work to do before I can actually go hit the table with the skills necessary to profit. This thread alone was very insightful and I had a couple questions in response to

Arnold Snyder's books are very easy to read. He doesn't spend much time with math at all. If you are on a small bankroll, you need to be very careful with what you read and how it applies to your situation.

First just wanted a second opinion on the book and also could you elaborate on the bolded. Like what I should and should not be reading? I'm sure theyres alot of variables involved in smallest reasonable initial bankroll but could you give an estimate in the ballpark assuming a 15-25 minbet?

Is it worth it for me to put all in the work its going to take to go from where I am now(complete noob) to a competent profitable player if I only have 3 casinos in driving distance(closest one being an hr away)?

All answers welcome

[Exoter175]

I should think most guys on here will be surpassing 20 seconds very easily. My PB is 14 seconds Hi-Lo and 17 seconds Zen. My playing partner can do similiar times aswell.
Most teams will ask for 20 seconds bare minimum. Of course its not the be all and end all of everything, I would say speed of playing decisions is more important. If you can plow through your hands superfast you will be playing much more hands per hour, thus increasing hourly EV.

14 seconds on a hand deck? I'd pay to see that vocalized. There's no way, in my mind, that someone can legitimately vocalize a hand deck down in 14 seconds. Computer deck, I can see pretty far down there, but a hand deck yourself? I don't believe it. Or maybe I'm just really slow with tossing the cards out there.

Granted, I don't do them face up either, they are face down and I flip them out.

Speed in counting down a deck is just not a relevant skill at all IMO, it doesn't translate to how the game is played. Speed at being able to scan a table full of cards with 5-6 hands and come up with the count is.

Just having the ability to get the count with a quick scan within a second or two is the important part. I don't even count single cards anymore, I count the felt.

[Pierce]

14 seconds on a hand deck? I'd pay to see that vocalized. There's no way, in my mind, that someone can legitimately vocalize a hand deck down in 14 seconds. Computer deck, I can see pretty far down there, but a hand deck yourself? I don't believe it. Or maybe I'm just really slow with tossing the cards out there.

Granted, I don't do them face up either, they are face down and I flip them out.



Just having the ability to get the count with a quick scan within a second or two is the important part. I don't even count single cards anymore, I count the felt.

Haha ll take the bet if your offering?

Daryl P could allegedly count a deck in 8 seconds, that was using a table spread as opposed to the method you describe. Like I say, how fast you can make your playing decisions is much more important. Counting becomes silly easy once you start grouping 4 cards together, means you only have to count 13 times as opposed to 52.