Planning my first scout outing

[MJGolf]

Please tell me where this is. Out here, every dealer, floor, and surveillance guy knows basic strategy, and it raises zero alarm if a player plays it perfectly (me). I'd love to play in a place where the personnel doesn't even know it lol.

Exoter: I don't try to get dealers or floor people to "know" basic strategy. The "book" they "espouse" is never anything I have read; it's purely experience. I ask them "what book"; no one knows which one and the dealers even joke about players saying "they play by the book" but they don't know the name when asked. I have been told plays that are "basic strategy" from never hit A/7, "It's 18 and that's a great hand".........to always take insurance when you have a BJ..."it's a guaranteed win" and the "book" tells you to "always take a guaranteed win". So what floor people you are around and dealers may "claim" to know basic strategy but in years of playing, I have NEVER seen any dealer or floor person that always quoted basic strategy correctly in every case for the game played. Let me take that back..........one time, years ago, I actually had a cute pit boss tell me on a single deck game (that's before I was truly counting) that on 77, I should stand against a 10. She said it looked like I was playing basic strategy flawlessly except that there were some nuances in single deck that didn't match multi deck. First time EVER had a pit boss tell me anything that was truly remotely helpful about "PLAYING" v. where to go eat............LOL

SO..........are you SURE that all of those casino personnel REALLY know basic strategy as well as you do?

[Exoter175]

Exoter: I don't try to get dealers or floor people to "know" basic strategy. The "book" they "espouse" is never anything I have read; it's purely experience. I ask them "what book"; no one knows which one and the dealers even joke about players saying "they play by the book" but they don't know the name when asked. I have been told plays that are "basic strategy" from never hit A/7, "It's 18 and that's a great hand".........to always take insurance when you have a BJ..."it's a guaranteed win" and the "book" tells you to "always take a guaranteed win". So what floor people you are around and dealers may "claim" to know basic strategy but in years of playing, I have NEVER seen any dealer or floor person that always quoted basic strategy correctly in every case for the game played. Let me take that back..........one time, years ago, I actually had a cute pit boss tell me on a single deck game (that's before I was truly counting) that on 77, I should stand against a 10. She said it looked like I was playing basic strategy flawlessly except that there were some nuances in single deck that didn't match multi deck. First time EVER had a pit boss tell me anything that was truly remotely helpful about "PLAYING" v. where to go eat............LOL

SO..........are you SURE that all of those casino personnel REALLY know basic strategy as well as you do?

I Play 50 hours a week now at 4 casinos, every dealer I go against KNOWS basic strategy, just as I do. When things get crowded, often the dealers will pass off gaming advice to me (when I'm playing) for advice because they recognize that I know the game in and out.

Believe it or not, I've actually started grilling dealers and floor personnel that I"m "comfortable" with, about certain plays just to gauge their Game IQ and overall knowledge, as an aside, I'm looking to see if they offer advice that coincides with BS deviations for counting.

I do this in a very nonchalant way in which I'm more or less coming off as a social butterfly more than a player. Its very, very hard for me to explain how this works without you seeing it in person, but there's absolutely zero chance that one of these regular floors knows I count, and in the very, very off chance that they do, they are okay with it.

It would seem that my "skillz" in this game are evolving at a pace faster than I had anticipated. I had assumed that the count and conversions would become second nature, and i18/f4 would eventually become second nature, but now its like an autonomous system in place when I play, so my consciousness catches on and starts to counteract this robotic approach and start defensively creating "cover" by engaging with the dealer and floor while keeping track of plays from the corner of my eye.

Right now I'm still cautious and defensive when it comes to really ripping into the house, especially this last month as I've been spotted by another local counter, to be fair, I spotted him first and found him in the bar hours after I saw him on the table and approached him with some not-so-obvious double talk to gauge if he was a counter and I was correct in my assumptions. Since then we've begun a correspondence and he's asked me to team up, though I'm very reluctant to say yes as I feel I'd be risking more exposure by doing this than I would otherwise with continuing my game.

Why this has anything to do with this thread, you ask? Because I've now started to add another level into my "scouting process". I'm spending more "focus" now trying to spot the counters and "knowledgeable" floor personnel. This, I believe (and maybe T3/Kj can come in and add their 2 cents) is far more important than recognizing the favorable dealers/tables to play at any one given point. I feel this is really just a minor league step (for me) into being/becoming legitimately "aware" of casino "heat", which in the end will end up being my judge and jury (the skill, not the people).

As a side note, this counting business is a lot of fun, its like reprogramming your brain to work a certain way, and then getting a front row view of its own evolution in the process. I don't know at this point if I'm truly growing or if my "growth" is just the repetition masking my deficiencies from my conscious mind when going through the motions.

Only time will tell I suppose.

[Dieter]

Please tell me where this is. Out here, every dealer, floor, and surveillance guy knows basic strategy, and it raises zero alarm if a player plays it perfectly (me). I'd love to play in a place where the personnel doesn't even know it lol.

... and out here in the sticks, nobody knows basic strategy. They have a vague idea at best.

H17, no surrender, mediocre penetration. x20 table limits are pretty common, too. I wouldn't relocate just for the games out here.


bad_strat.jpg
That's the strategy card one of the bigger houses hands out and trains their staff from. No wonder nobody around here knows. (Yes, I redacted the image.)

[Exoter175]

... and out here in the sticks, nobody knows basic strategy. They have a vague idea at best.

H17, no surrender, mediocre penetration. x20 table limits are pretty common, too. I wouldn't relocate just for the games out here.


bad_strat.jpg
That's the strategy card one of the bigger houses hands out and trains their staff from. No wonder nobody around here knows. (Yes, I redacted the image.)

Sounds like you're stuck with basically the same rules I play, though our table limits are 100x-200x and the penetration can be mind blowing if you've done your scouting.

[Dieter]

Sounds like you're stuck with basically the same rules I play, though our table limits are 100x-200x and the penetration can be mind blowing if you've done your scouting.

The rules and pen are worse at the 100x table. I find I do much better at the DD 20x tables, where the pen is better.

So nice to catch a dealer who gives 75% pen on a DD game. That's much better than the norm around here.

[MJGolf]

Originally Posted by Exoter175 Believe it or not, I've actually started grilling dealers and floor personnel that I"m "comfortable" with, about certain plays just to gauge their Game IQ and overall knowledge, as an aside, I'm looking to see if they offer advice that coincides with BS deviations for counting.

They would need to be counting the shoe to give counting deviations. If they are counting the shoe you might want to be elsewhere.

Man, are you REALLY inquiring as to them giving you advice on "counting deviations" from basic strategy? In what way? And wouldn't that vary as to the count and cause way unneeded stress? How is that done in "inconspicuous" conversation? Or do you mean you just ask them "would they take insurance?" "do they hit 16 v. 10?" Personally, I would NEVER want to get into ANY conversation with a dealer or pit boss anything remotely regarding playing deviations from basic strategy. Unless you are betting at a level they just don't give a "flying flip" about. I'm not questioning your experiences; I'm just personally very leery about getting anywhere close to this kind of discussion with them.

Now as to the "auto pilot" nature of I18; counting; and playing deviations, I hope to also get to that point. My congrats! It's still work for me......LOL

[Ouchez]

Exoter,

The way you play, 50 hour a week at 4 casinos, it should only be second nature to notice what pit critters are a threat and which are not, this is most important, and a expected strategic practice.

Your banter at the table can be seen a condescending, that is with the dealer, pit, and if they have suspicion and then decide suspicion is fact, they may feel you have played THEM, dissed them, and this is not a good situation at all. I would suggest you refrain from such activity and talk sports, family, weather, etc., just show honest respect.

Best,
O

[Exoter175]

Exoter,

The way you play, 50 hour a week at 4 casinos, it should only be second nature to notice what pit critters are a threat and which are not, this is most important, and a expected strategic practice.

Your banter at the table can be seen a condescending, that is with the dealer, pit, and if they have suspicion and then decide suspicion is fact, they may feel you have played THEM, dissed them, and this is not a good situation at all. I would suggest you refrain from such activity and talk sports, family, weather, etc., just show honest respect.

Best,
O

Oh trust me 95% of my "table talk" is about their day, week, weekend, how their family is, on specific dealer I play with I bring up this girl he's been chasing trying to make her his girlfriend. Its not like my 50 hours a week of play are all about questioning the dealers about their game lol, that's a lot of unwanted attention. But you figure over X amount of months at Y hours per month, you can insert enough questions or remarks about plays over that period to gauge their IQ in the game and if they are counting, without losing sleep over it.

[Dieter]

gauge their IQ in the game and if they are counting

When they're sitting next to me at another casino and moving their bets at the right times, I kind of take it for granted.

Otherwise, if they're stuck on a dead carnival game, we'll just chat about whatever subject comes to the fore.

[moo321]

What tthree said. Heads up with an ok game with a fast dealer and a dumb crew is better than 1.5/2 S17, DAS, RSA at a crowded, slow table with a sharp crew.

[Ouchez]

What tthree said. Heads up with an ok game with a fast dealer and a dumb crew is better than 1.5/2 S17, DAS, RSA at a crowded, slow table with a sharp crew.

What is an ok game? Alot of variables, how great a game it is, how many spots you are playing, and your SKILLZ level.

I do not place a great value on heads up, or a demon fast dealer, but I do not like a full table either, but then again, how many spots are we talking about??? LOTSA variables.

Best,
O

[Dieter]

I do not place a great value on heads up

I'm curious - do you have a reason based on something beyond gut feel?

[Ouchez]

I'm curious - do you have a reason based on something beyond gut feel?

Dieter,
For sure and for certain,

O