Lowest min tables in Vegas?

[seriousplayer]

Well, if your option is to not play any decent 3:2 DD 10 dollar tables, or spend 40 bucks to go play them, I'd spend the 40 bucks. Its called opportunity cost, and many guys here, despite knowing the math and ins and outs of advantage play, don't understand how a "business" works sometimes. Everyone's looking to milk +EV, but sometimes you need to spend a little to get the +EV in the first place.

All I'm saying is, if I took a trip out to vegas, $40 dollars is NOTHING. Especially if its your first time. Hell, you'd be an idiot NOT to go to FSE and hit up all of their casinos. And here's my rationale behind that. When I went in April, my first trip there of legal age, I hit up EVERY casino there, signed up for the club/players card, and got a sheetful of free shit and incentives from each place. Almost EVERY place down there will give you a matchplay voucher, and every other place will give you that, plus a voucher for a free ace.

I played 25 hands while I was in vegas on night 1, won 24 of them, and basically every one of those hands was played with a voucher ( I didn't have time to play tables on night 1, we had too many tourist things to do ). Made a killing on night 1, it was unbelievable.

What the h*ll is FSE.

[mcallister3200]

You can rent a car for less than $40 a day in vegas and play better double deck than you can find downtown with the exception of if you want the experience of the sweat or backoff at the el cortez. Fse=Fremont street experience.

[mcallister3200]

Not me, but for some players on larger bankrolls chasing those high %, low $ value promotions can be the opportunity cost, costing them time spent on higher dollar value, lower percentage value plays.

[Exoter175]

What the h*ll is FSE.

Fremont Street Experience, aka the heart of Downtown where all the solid casinos are for DD play IMO

You can rent a car for less than $40 a day in vegas and play better double deck than you can find downtown with the exception of if you want the experience of the sweat or backoff at the el cortez. Fse=Fremont street experience.

And then you can put gas in that car and yada yada yada. Look, I'm not going to argue about trimming the fat down to the most cost effective route to get out there, but what I will say is that if this guy is on the strip facing terrible 6D rule talbes for 10-15 mins, he might as well go to FSE and play the 10-15 DD mins with solid rules and get a shit ton of vouchers.

Now, I'm not norm or Tthree so I don't know the numbers off the top of my head, but I"m pretty sure there's +EV to be had with the vouchers alone, not to mention the better rules vs. strips 6:5 shit rules. On top of that, most of those vouchers have no maximum denomination to them, only minimum denomination of $10 depending on where you go. I sat on a $25 with my match play and bet 35 and go matched at one joint, so the +EV use is up to you.

The point is, however, that its worth spending 40 bucks, which is a drop in the bucket, to go find better advantage plays, better +EV, and the potential for a much higher margin of +EV due to the vouchers that you just aren't going to get on the strip at most places, or at least not as easily.

Not me, but for some players on larger bankrolls chasing those high %, low $ value promotions can be the opportunity cost, costing them time spent on higher dollar value, lower percentage value plays.

What is low % $ value promotions, about uncapped match play vouchers? Now, I'm sure the PBs will tell you that you can't go above 100 on it, but you don't have to play it immediately, so you could do very well on a $10 DD table with a 1:4 spread, hit TC+4 and toss your voucher out there. You win that hand and the single voucher pays for the entire taxi fare there and back to your strip hotel, and then you've got about 15-20 more vouchers to play at various casinos and better tables to play on vs. the strip.

I'm not sure where you see an issue with the opportunity cost here with your "time spent" mumbo, since the guys' basically talking about a 6:5 area with like one 3:2 table that is cramped and sweaty.

[Intermediate]

Stick to Rule of 11 on downtown DD. You'll be surprised at what's playable down there given the pen. Rent a car and go off strip.

[mcallister3200]

I agree about that Fremont is worth a stop. Imo most of the double deck down there is unplayable 50% crap. For most players the coupon run is worth it. For a player who is going to be spreading black, however, his hourly EV dollar value is going to be lower on the matchplay run, even though the % advantage is higher.

[Exoter175]

Stick to Rule of 11 on downtown DD. You'll be surprised at what's playable down there given the pen. Rent a car and go off strip.

I was there two months ago at literally every single casino except 1 or 2, I think I've got a pretty good idea of what was playable, I ended up doing rather well lol.

I agree about that Fremont is worth a stop. Imo most of the double deck down there is unplayable 50% crap. For most players the coupon run is worth it. For a player who is going to be spreading black, however, his hourly EV dollar value is going to be lower on the matchplay run, even though the % advantage is higher.

Where were you playing( or see) 50% pen? Most everything I played was right around 65-70% Pen. Also, again, it doesn't matter if you're a black chipper or not, its worth it your first time down (since they are only available for first timers), having a free ace can be pretty awesome at a black chip table too :P

[Three]

Playable is usually defined by a N0 of less than 20,000 (Standard SCORE of 50 or more is the equivalent). The same game may be unplayable to a weak system and playable for a stronger one. If you are both using the same system and indices etc you should be in agreement to what is playable.

[BugsySeagull]

Having just come back and being in much the same situation I would say that about the only chance of playing a $10 game without 6/5 and no shufflers is TI, Monte Carlo or NYNY. You may be able to find some in other places before noon. Good luck.

How is the pen. at those places? I'm particularly wondering about DD, last time I was at TI a year ago the pen. on their $10 DD game wasn't great, like barely 60%.

[Banjoclan]

I'm not experienced so I wouldn't take this as gospel but, yeah, 60% at the TI DD game seems about right. I was using a 1-8 spread at that game. I didn't go downtown as I was with my wife and wanted to do stuff with her when I wasn't playing so I spent a lot of time at those places due to the stakes plus rules.

[BugsySeagull]

What about the pen. at NYNY or Monte Carlo?

[smatchemosmall]

Pen at Monte Carlo was pretty bad, like 4.5/6

[moo321]

All the locals joints are going to have $5 DD, some will have $3 shoes or even pitch.

I would actually recommend back-counting shoes on the strip for your first visit to Vegas. Less likely to get backed off.

And don't use a player's card in Vegas. They're too sharp and you'll burn your name out.