Shuffle/Penetration

[Zach Black]

Could it be when you're a local, the dealers that have seen how wide your bets swing are more likely deal a rule of 6 game? The better the player they perceive, the less pen you get? I was recently through your area and found a few dealing a rule of 7 and 8 games, but mostly rule of 6.

If you have a dealer giving a rule of 6 game (5 rounds head up (27 cards), then add a hand to get better pen (4 rounds x 3 hands x 2.7 card/hand/round = 32 cards). If you're getting a rule of 7 game (6 rounds heads up 32 cards) you've got nothing to complain about.

[muffdiver]

HCer? Spread size 1 to 4; some can get to 6;
I'm told game rules are bad compared to most other parts of the country. People tend to take the path of least resistance. It's easier to deal than shuffle and easier to put the cards back in a machine shuffler than continue to deal. So there are a handful of dealers that will go deeper than normal in the deck with hand shuffles. During the peak season, it's very difficult to find 1 on 1 play for an extended period. I watch guys playing $100 a hand and getting 60% pen, I thought there might be a point to it rather enjoying the game and not mind losing loads of money.

HCer=hole carder
Looks like you're referring more to a specific locale/game and I'm talking more in general terms but no problem.

[Zach Black]

I've venture to guess you never saw card 33 with a machine shuffle. 6 rounds/32 cards is acceptable but not highly profitable especially without extreme patience and discipline. It's that hard to find Rule 8 game that offsets the standard Rule 6 game.

I did see several 7 round / 38-40 card games both hand shuffled and from ASM. If they have a negative pack they have no problem dealing more rounds with more small cards in hand. I don't get the significance of a machine shuffle.

[muffdiver]

I personally question the ethics of HCing but that's just me. It seems that it's a vocation for some and I believe there are actual HC teams. Knowing the hole card has unlimited value. If you play enough at different locations, you're bound to occasionally see dealers inadvertently flash (or flip) the hole card. Most casinos around here give players a choice to play or not play the hand out.

[Three]

You still get to cut the cards don't you? If there is a group of high cards that come out you have the advantage when they do. That's how counting works. If you believe that ASM's have you playing a negative pack then either high cards are at the start of the deck an/or behind the cut card. If the latter cut so they aren't behind the cut card. If the former bet big off the top since you know the count is going to nose dive which is caused by an early high card rich round so you should bet it. If none of the above I call BS and I don't mean basic strategy.

[Three]

Dealer has probably been told to count to 6 and put the cards back in the shuffler. The less pen the more conservative my game must become because there is no time for a comeback and solid plus counts are fewer and further in between.

Why aren't you playing 2 hands? It will get you deeper pen if they are shuffling too early with 1 hand.

And if I can't witness the shuffle then the cut card is primarily a guess.

If you are cutting the deck the shuffle machine set to rig the cards has to guess where you will cut. That is why I called BS. If you hold the cut card the cut will determine if the shuffle plays hot or cold.

Anxiously, waiting to hear back from ZB as to the numerous places he was receiving the benefit of 38-40 cards pen.

I wouldn't hold my breath. He probably intends to play them again. If he hands the info to a local the opportunity will be killed before he can play again. As a local you should already have this info unless your hand management strategy is causing poor pen. You should read up on optimal hand management for various shuffling strategies used by the casino. The don't shuffle at the cut card but use various rules to determine when to shuffle depending on how many hands are being played. I am not a SD player so don't ask me but I have read the information. All I need for now is to know it exists. If I ever need it I can find it.

[TeepsConPeeps]

Thanks for input. I've played probably close to 1m hands in my lifetime. I don't know that I've ever been able to see the dealers hole card. I catch the burn card and the bottom card quite often.

If you can see the bottom card, you can get a 32% advantage on the first hand of the shoe/deck... You just have to be really good at cutting the deck.

[Three]

So you're suggesting I match wits with a machine?

No, I am saying you are blaming the machine for natural occurrence. That the fact that you cut the cards means the good part(s) of the deck location are in your hands mot the machines. Your cut will either put them in play or out of play (after the shuffle) and make them start the deck or be just before the shuffle. Believing that the machine is rigging a negative count isn't possible if your cut determines where the plusses and minuses are. If there is a negative portion of the shoe there is a positive. The negative portion can be in front of or behind the shuffle point according to how you cut. If you always cut the same spot and believe the machine is beating you cut different so you get the counts you want. If you are always cutting differently the machine isn't doing anything to hurt you. I don't think the machine has anything to do with it. I think the ASM paranoia has started to shape your perception and caused such a low sampling that skewed perception and normal variance has you believing ploppy thoughts. Like anything mindset is important to success in BJ.

You have a good pitcher on a bad team vs an average pitcher on a very good team...which is the better play?

I suck at betting baseball. The best strategy is ask me how I would bet and do the opposite. That said if the pitcher is good enough to throw a complete game shut out he is hard to beat. His team must get at least 1 run for him though.

[Three]

Cards are dealt face down. You are not allowed to look at the 2nd hand until your play is complete on the first.

They deal so many rounds to 1 hand and and a different amount to 2 and another amount to 3. They result in different penetration with the same dealer. ZB said as much but you thought it was where he played not that he knew how to play the optimal number of hands to maximize pen.

If you have a dealer giving a rule of 6 game (5 rounds head up (27 cards), then add a hand to get better pen (4 rounds x 3 hands x 2.7 card/hand/round = 32 cards). If you're getting a rule of 7 game (6 rounds heads up 32 cards) you've got nothing to complain about.

[Three]

Find the ADVANTAGE

Add a hand.

[Three]

Two notes. 1.) You must double the min. bet amount to play two hands. 5x for 3 hands (win and get booted)

I love this rule. They give me a raise thinking they are hurting me. Why would the casino forcing you to double your bet to always play 2 hands and get better pen bother you if you are adequately BR'ed. You still get to play a 1-4 spread but you make twice as much. I always play 2 at more than the min bet. I try to lower my bet and they make me also drop to 1 hand. It cracks me up. I just keep trying to bet 2xtable min and then when they tell me I can't I bet 1x table min. The EITS can see I am not trying to play 1 hand. Your spread becomes more effective. 2xdouble table min to 8xdouble table min in good decks. If the deck goes to crap you end up being forced to play a spread of 1xtable min to 2x4times table min. That is going to much more than double your profits over betting 1xtable min to 1x4times table min all the time. No wonder you are losing. You can't spot the edge they are forcing on you.

[Three]

My sims say to bet a 1-3 spread at SD. 2xU off the top sreading up to 2x3U if the count goes up chipping up as you go and dropping your bet if the count tanks to as low as 1x1/2U. Play short sessions and they see a 1-3 spread since that is what you show on any given deck.

[Zach Black]

I'd be interested to hear where/when you were finding a significant amount of 7 round/38-40 card games heads up for any length of time. .

It was not a significant amount time.. Other players would join frequently. Rule of 6 is probably at 75% casino/dealers that I played. I visit your region 2 times a year for a couple of days, so by no means an expert. I enjoy the volatility of the game as shoes can put you to sleep with the infrequent advantages. Any further question are better off line