$800 br

[22playing21]

I would like to first thank all members on the site for the posts and endless information to look back on about the game of blackjack.


I am a young man who has always had a thing for gambling. Whether it be on video games, bets with friends on sports games, or basically anything somebody wanted to bet on. I have been playing blackjack for about 2 years now, visiting the casino at least once a week and trying to play online everyday if possible. My bankroll for each visit is always $800. I leave other money behind so that i can not withdraw it as i have quite a bit of living expenses unfortunately. I started as a basic strategy player and would more often than not find myself on the losing end being -$800, and when i was on the winning end i never even cracked $600 profit in one trip. After suffering to many heavy losses to my gambling bankroll which was at the time $5,000 that i had separate from my real life BR, i stopped visiting the casino. As a simple basic strat player i still knew how to count cards using hi-lo but i would find myself losing count to often and would just give up hope. After a few weeks of not hitting the tables i had the itch to go back but i did not want to go back just as an average player.. i wanted to be an advantage player. After going back and practicing for hours playing red chips I can now count through an entire shoe in a casino pretty fluently but since i have not practiced index plays in a live casino i may make a slight mistake on those every now and then but i do know them for the rules in my local stores. My deck estimation is good not yet GREAT. I feel i can now gain an advantage on the casinos, but i feel i do not have the BR suitable for even trying at a come up. Is it possible to attack the casino with a 5,000 BR, while only using max of $800 per trip? I do have a job so the gambling BR is able to be built back up.. Please let me know the best way to approach my situation. Any advice or things i should and should not do would be greatly appreciated

Thanks!

[hitA7]

Hi and thanks for your honesty.

A $5K BR may be appropriate for red chip action (unless you are willing to take on relatively high risk playing green). It all depends with what you can stomach and are okay with accepting.

However, before you do that, I would suggest to not set foot in a casino until you have mastered the couple weakneses you have noticed on your game. This way, any negative swing will be only b/c of the variance of the game, and not b/c "you lost the count" or made a constly mistake.

All the best!

[code red]

A $5K BR may be appropriate for red chip action

That's what I did.

[22playing21]

Thanks for the quick reply, hitA7. I have been working on my deck estimation every day. I have been studying index plays every night before i sleep. There is so much to learn in this game and i still have plenty of room for improvement as you mentioned. I have no problem playing green action but i think until i am totally comfortable with my play i will start with reds when i decide to try my luck again in the casino.

[Skull]

Hey 22p21!


I am a total beginner, but I have been studying BJ quite a lot. Please, DON'T play green with a 5k bankroll.

In a reasonably decent SCORE 30 game, you have almost 50% RoR green chipping with a 5k bankroll.

If you consider $800 your section bankroll, you have almost 90% RoR!!!

What you SHOULD do instead I am no one to tell you, but DON'T go green!!


Best of luck!

[ZenKinG]

Hey 22p21!


I am a total beginner, but I have been studying BJ quite a lot. Please, DON'T play green with a 5k bankroll.

In a reasonably decent SCORE 30 game, you have almost 50% RoR green chipping with a 5k bankroll.

If you consider $800 your section bankroll, you have almost 90% RoR!!!

What you SHOULD do instead I am no one to tell you, but DON'T go green!!


Best of luck!

A score of 30 is not decent at all, definitely below average.

[Skull]

A score of 30 is not decent at all, definitely below average.

Hey ZenKing!

I figured by the original post that he focused on longevity at his local store.

While I would love to hear how you guys get away with large spreads and optimum index plays to get a much higher SCORE than 30, I don't even consider attempting such a game while I am a total beginner (actually, right now I am still just a wannabe total beginner ). I will no doubt have a lot of counter's tells and will make too many counting mistakes, so if I top all that up with a big spread and perfect play, I am doomed before I even begin.
So, I was assuming the OP would not attempt nice games such as the one you play. I guess my assumption was correct when he said in his last post: "I would like to keep my max bet at $50 and my minimum at $10".

I, myself, will be attempting a 21.43 SCORE game in my first trip to Vegas. I know it sucks, but my absolute priority is not to be backed off. It is just a learning bankroll anyway. But even being such a lousy game, playing with my bet ramp in CV, I almost tripled my initial bankroll after 1886 hands (empirical EV of 4.48%) (You don't need to know I lost my first bankroll after only 37 hands !!! ). Sometimes, I just wonder how much does our calculated IBA% matter among such a wild variance...

Well, answering Nikky, please see the tables below. This is optimum $10-$50 bet ramp assuming RSA, 75% pen, 100 hands per hour, 4 players, High-Low with Sweet 16 and Fab 4 (sorry Nikky, I haven't done the "only insurance index" sim yet). The CVCX image refers to the cells highlighted in red.

nikky_table.PNG

nikky_sim.jpg

I guess you can take your own conclusions, but I am afraid to say I was being pretty optimist by proposing a 30 SCORE. By using his spread, he can only achieve that by both wonging in and out in a game with either late surrender or S17. My beginner self does not like the idea of wonging in at all (only out), but that's just me. It is impressive, though, how wonging reduces RoR, so I really think the OP should consider at least wonging out.

Hey Nikky, I don't mind at all doing these "homeworks", I actually learn A LOT with them, but I guess you should consider buying CVCX and CVData my friend. With your actual casino experience, I think you would profit very very much in doing so.

Best cards to all of you!

[Nikky_Flash]

Hey Nikky, I don't mind at all doing these "homeworks", I actually learn A LOT with them, but I guess you should consider buying CVCX and CVData my friend. With your actual casino experience, I think you would profit very very much in doing so.

Best cards to all of you!

I play TKO / TKO is not a normal count /system / I've been trying to Sim it in my spare time on my demo version since like 2013 ... you can check the thread called , "Depth Based Betting" for my most recent TKO sim questions , maybe from last night and the night before, for S--ts and giggles , I have older TKO sim questions buried in this forum from last year as well ... I have future TKO sim questions but I'm not sure exactlly where/how to find them right now .

[Skull]

I play TKO / TKO is not a normal count /system / I've been trying to Sim it in my spare time on my demo version since like 2013 ... you can check the thread called , "Depth Based Betting" for my most recent TKO sim questions , maybe from last night and the night before, for S--ts and giggles , I have older TKO sim questions buried in this forum from last year as well ... I have future TKO sim questions but I'm not sure exactlly where/how to find them right now .

So why complicate things so much? You said yourself in one of your previous posts that "TKO is so weird", so why not change your count? Sorry, I don't want to begin one of those endless discussions about counting systems, but doesn't TKO combine the disadvantages of both unbalanced and balanced systems? Is the performance so much better to make it worth it? I mean, if you can't simulate your play, you are blind and that is a risk by itself, isn't it? Possibly even negatively compensating any excess EV you may get with this count. I don't know... I am no one to give BJ advices, but maybe, since you already dominate deck estimation and TC calculation, couldn't you consider a balanced count? I practiced REKO to a point I was counting down a deck in 16 seconds. When I decided to switch to High-Low, I thought I could never stop counting the 7s. However, in one week I was again counting a deck in less than 20 sec and now I DON'T SEE any 7s anymore!! Just a thought...

If you find something you would be willing me to try in CVCX for TKO, just let me know.

Best!

[Skull]

And what is the relation of TKO and COB anyway?

[Skull]

Hey Nikky!

First of all, please don't feel I am criticizing you, OK? It's just a chat and my humble opinions...

And what is the relation of TKO and COB anyway?

That was a silly question, sorry for that. I have COB and I bought it because I wanted to improve REKO and I guess I read it so focused in the bet ramp that I skipped every time he said "TKO". Actually, I thought the real TKO was a different count, one that did the entire true count calculation like a normal balanced count. But, anyway, the truth is that COB is just a shortcut for true counting, isn't it? I don't see much of a difference from actual true counting (the "eureka" he mentions in the book), because you have to estimate decks remaining AND memorize the RCs. In truth, and I just learned that, that's pretty much what you do when true counting. Right after I begin playing a shoe I know I need a RC of at least +10 to increase bets (TC +2 with 5 decks remaining), then +8 (TC+2 with 4 decks remaining), then +6, etc... Of course, larger variations of RC will demand a higher increase, but you know you need at least a RC of +9 when there are 3 decks remaining to jump your bets, etc... The truth is that true counting, at least when estimating to full decks, is much easier than I thought. And I believe it makes it easier to tweak your bet ramp in order to use cover. But, again, I have not given much thought to COB, so you have probably figured out good enough ways to tweak COB's bet ramp to match your personal taste, I am sure. Well, sorry for digressing so much from the OP....

Best of luck Nikky!

[Nikky_Flash]

Hey Nikky!

First of all, please don't feel I am criticizing you, OK? It's just a chat and my humble opinions...



That was a silly question, sorry for that. I have COB and I bought it because I wanted to improve REKO and I guess I read it so focused in the bet ramp that I skipped every time he said "TKO". Actually, I thought the real TKO was a different count, one that did the entire true count calculation like a normal balanced count. But, anyway, the truth is that COB is just a shortcut for true counting, isn't it? I don't see much of a difference from actual true counting (the "eureka" he mentions in the book), because you have to estimate decks remaining AND memorize the RCs. In truth, and I just learned that, that's pretty much what you do when true counting. Right after I begin playing a shoe I know I need a RC of at least +10 to increase bets (TC +2 with 5 decks remaining), then +8 (TC+2 with 4 decks remaining), then +6, etc... Of course, larger variations of RC will demand a higher increase, but you know you need at least a RC of +9 when there are 3 decks remaining to jump your bets, etc... The truth is that true counting, at least when estimating to full decks, is much easier than I thought. And I believe it makes it easier to tweak your bet ramp in order to use cover. But, again, I have not given much thought to COB, so you have probably figured out good enough ways to tweak COB's bet ramp to match your personal taste, I am sure. Well, sorry for digressing so much from the OP....

Best of luck Nikky!

thanks man , I forgot the difference between REKO and KO / I'll look it up again / I would guess COB is cut out for that too ...
I would never think you were criticizing anyone, just talking math and number theory and questions are fine... I have to type and think-fast alot and get right to the point cuz I don't have much leisure time in my life so if I sounded serious or something that's it .. people who know me know I joke around a bit and have fun and light-hearted most the time but on here I have to type and think fast because it's my only free-internet-time... also the very nature of text-based communication i.e : internet forum/ text messaging / none of which has any emotion or voice inflection attached to it / and the human brian/mind takes that as important information , and on communication in this manner , ALL of that information is gone. That's my theory as to why so many arguments start on internet comments/forums etc ... , you can't tell if it's "light- hearted" , "mellow" so by it's very nature just everything comes across robotic-dead serious , unless we add a smiley ... ttyl

[Skull]

thanks man , I forgot the difference between REKO and KO / I'll look it up again / I would guess COB is cut out for that too ...
I would never think you were criticizing anyone, just talking math and number theory and questions are fine... I have to type and think-fast alot and get right to the point cuz I don't have much leisure time in my life so if I sounded serious or something that's it .. people who know me know I joke around a bit and have fun and light-hearted most the time but on here I have to type and think fast because it's my only free-internet-time... also the very nature of text-based communication i.e : internet forum/ text messaging / none of which has any emotion or voice inflection attached to it / and the human brian/mind takes that as important information , and on communication in this manner , ALL of that information is gone. That's my theory as to why so many arguments start on internet comments/forums etc ... , you can't tell if it's "light- hearted" , "mellow" so by it's very nature just everything comes across robotic-dead serious , unless we add a smiley ... ttyl

I guess we are at the same page Nikky. For the exact reasons you pointed out, here it goes my preferred emoticon



Best cards!!