Tipping dealers-worth or not?

[White Guy]

No typo. 20k. 0 tip. The person I was playing with was relatively new but it doesn't take a Long time pro to realize the dealer has no control over the cards, the casino will eventually hate you anyways, and you are basically flushing $$ down the toilet as there was no added benefit to the game from the $ handed over.

I won 25k in 30 min before and I tipped $200 only because I felt the pressure as there was a lot of pit there. Looking back, I want my $200 as it wasn't worth it. Even for PEN it is rarely worth it. The EV on the play was maybe $800 so it was a huge waste and would have been better spent buying some clothes for a poor kid or something.

In about a month stint playing a certain game that required $10 going to the dealers in order to make it a +EV situation I estimate we tipped about $16k to the dealers in about a months worth of play. This was in a casino were that pit got to keep all their tips and were the main attraction there.

Did it help with longevity or prevent any heat when we started winning? Not at all.

My goal is to get the $ out of the casino, if I succeed in the way I want, they will hate me eventually regardless of what I give their dealers.

There is no art to it, its a waste of $$. There is an art maybe to learning how to not do it or minimize it IMO.

Don't let the casino trick you into paying their dealers wages and then toss you out when you get some for yourself. Who's playing who?

[KJ]

Did it help with longevity or prevent any heat when we started winning? Not at all.

My goal is to get the $ out of the casino, if I succeed in the way I want, they will hate me eventually regardless of what I give their dealers.

There is no art to it, its a waste of $$. There is an art maybe to learning how to not do it or minimize it IMO.

Don't let the casino trick you into paying their dealers wages and then toss you out when you get some for yourself. Who's playing who?

Very good, White Guy. This is pretty much the way I think on the matter.

A player out for a fun evening who engages with a friendly dealer....If they want to tip, fine, I get it. There are recreational AP's, who sort of combine AP and entertainment...If they want to tip, fine. But for pure AP's focused on the the 'advantage', I don't see a whole lot of benefit. Sure, I know there are players that think they are buying better penetration. I kind of have mixed feelings on that practice anyway.

But the bottom line is that when the powers that be, whether pit or surveillance decide that your play is a threat (or even too good), the fact that you are tipping isn't going to change their decision. Those that think you are buying favor with the dealers and especially pit...think again. When the pit has to answer as to why they let you continue to play and spread aggressively, you think an answer of because he was tipping the dealer is going to cut it?

There are those that believe that tipping makes you look more like a non-AP. Maybe, Maybe not. But if that's the argument, then it just comes down to giving up some of your advantage for cover, and I just don't believe in a lot of that. My edge is just too small to give much back.

Now, besides the fact that I just don't see a lot of value, especially for my plan of attack (short sessions - hit and run), I have two pet peeves about the whole tipping thing. White Guy has hit on one with his final statement. The casino industry is just trying to push it's responsibility in paying there employee's wages off on the public, and many in the public are buying it.

The second is that many dealers are not happy with a small toke. They somehow have decided they are entitled to a certain percentage, like a waiter/waitress. Well, not from this guy they aren't.

[KJ]

Additional thought: In reality, the casino industry and those that regulate it, should have long ago eliminated tipping, just to remove any hint of appearance of dealers working with or colluding with players.

[stopgambling]

If i can get away without tipping I would . The reality is the culture have tipping dealers in a casino. anything less than 5% the dealer will think you/we are cheap.Sometimes it is hard to get away from tipping ,i would want to tell them no . if I am a plop yes I would tell them straight in their face. No dealer dare or want to engage me if i am playing as a plop , I am very aggressive about that. But the sad reality is when we/I try not tip as AP(maybe I don't pass as one) It becomes more difficult. I play longer session which i believe it is hard to not tip even as a cheapskate.

[code red]

I dont see any way of tipping being cover. Just normal people watching deemed me as a lunatic betting my max bet on two spots and not lowering the bet after losses. Buying insurance on big bets and losing the bet also makes people cringe lmao. A kid at the table was schooling me at the table why to never buy insurance . I lost over 40 units because of the insurance bet my last session. The most enjoyable part of advantage play is being told by ploppies the correct play of a hand or just tips in general. I just wish the dealers would stop complaining about me surrendering, anyone have good advice to deal with this? I just reply its basic strategy.

[Jabberwocky]

If i can get away without tipping I would . The reality is the culture have tipping dealers in a casino. anything less than 5% the dealer will think you/we are cheap.Sometimes it is hard to get away from tipping ,i would want to tell them no . if I am a plop yes I would tell them straight in their face. No dealer dare or want to engage me if i am playing as a plop , I am very aggressive about that. But the sad reality is when we/I try not tip as AP(maybe I don't pass as one) It becomes more difficult. I play longer session which i believe it is hard to not tip even as a cheapskate.

My tipping is limited betting the lucky ladies bonus for them in DD games. They have to be willing to cough up deep pen, at least 75%. Otherwise they get zilch. I hope the hell they are listening; if not, then they can coast along on minimum wages. I am neutral about it.

[njrich]

I just reply its basic strategy.

Good enough you don't have to give them a story.
Dealers that complain about your surrendering are just friggin lazy and don't want to swap your chips out
it takes a lot of effort to change a green into $12.50 and omg they have to use a pink.

[DM21]

I was ,what I thought, a moderate tipper. Was reviewing my records over the past year, I added up the total amount of tips and it was around 20 hours of EV, yikes!!! When playing lots of hours and sessions it really adds up. It has moved from being a hobby to supplemental income so I wanted to cut the fat. Not just tipping but all expenses and unnecessary leakage. I rarely tip now and when I do it is very little, maybe a dollar every so often.

A couple of techniques that I use is to immediately pocket any chips below green. Usually the only time I get them is when I get a BJ with an odd amount of green chips out. I try to bet in $50 increments to avoid this but I will get them on waiting bets or when I go "all in". The additional $12.50 will go straight to my pocket so I never have any loose change laying around. Also, on my last hand or two I will palm enough chips so I will have an even color up. I know if I need to add or subtract a chip or two if I win or lose the last hand. This prevents the dealers from eyeing the leftover chips at a color up and feeling like they were stiffed.


I don't compensate the dealers monetarily but I do think I make their time more enjoyable when I am at their table. I treat them with respect and stick up for them when people become abusive. Even when I get frustrated during a bad session I let them know that I know it isn't their fault and that it is just the cards. Dealing cards is usually a miserable job and they take a lot of abuse so I feel that my time at the table is value added for them even if they don't get any money from me.


DM

[Three]

I rarely tip now and when I do it is very little, maybe a dollar every so often.

Small and frequent.

This prevents the dealers from eyeing the leftover chips at a color up and feeling like they were stiffed.

I don't really care what the dealer thinks if he makes any snide comments I tell him I was feeling bad about not tipping but his present attitude made me think it was the right move. I decide when I will tip and if you think my decisions are cheap then in the future I will tip so we can both agree that it is cheap because I think I am a good tipper.

[21forme]

No typo. 20k. 0 tip.

If this was in Michigan, I met the involved dealer.

[stopgambling]

All they care about is tip. All we care about is EV. We are going in opposite direction. They read our forum, we read their forum , well some of us do . I would not give more than 10% of my EV. Are dealers willing to deal extra 10% pen ? I doubt it. How do dealers and pit look at gamblers/ap . Well , I would say with disrespect for most as per dealer forum or my experience. Friend's (not close) utmost real comment. I know some of these people personally .

[Three]

I would not give more than 10% of my EV. Are dealers willing to deal extra 10% pen ?

You are extremely generous.

I doubt it. How do dealers and pit look at gamblers/ap . Well , I would say with disrespect for most as per dealer forum or my experience.

When you are with others that suffer as only you do as a group, what do you say when you blow off steam about the group that make you suffer? Do you feel that way about an unknown individual picked at random? Do you feel that way about all the individuals in the group? Do you give glowing reports about that guy that caused you no problems and never does when everyone is blowing off steam? Think about it before you think you understand the other side of the table when you read them blowing off steam to their comrades from the pit.