Can ASMs be rigged to advantage the house?

[BJGenius007]

Genius if you know the order you should be killing the game. The T value cards will come out in a predetermined order. You would know if you were getting a T on your stiff and stand. You would know when you are getting a T to double. You would know how likely the dealer is to have a T in the hole. It would wither be 100% or a chance much lower than the normal expectation. You could sit out or add a hand to manipulate the order of the cards. If you can't crush a game with that info something is wrong. Spend some time making records of the cards in evil mode and your records will either disprove your theory or give you a winning blueprint. When the "random" order is known for baccarat pre-shuffled shoes the players win millions in a shoe. Of course you can't bet on the dealer like in baccarat but you can use the information to shape your bets (0 to whatever you deem best) and number of hands (0, 1, 2 or more if possible) to win most hands that you choose to play unlike with counting. You know when the Floor puts the machine in evil mode then stand up and get out the pen and paper get the blueprint to make more money than you ever thought possible.

Unfortunately, we don't know the degree of the concentration in each step or if the pit boss push the button to clump cards at all. Also, such a sequence is to use rising TC as the weapon against counters.

And I want people to think carefully where to cut it to benefit. The answer is no. Note because of step 5, the starting point could be anywhere in the shoe.

The shoe from the Hell:

Face card super rich half deck + small card super rich half deck + face card poor four decks + face card rich three decks.

These are the same shoe:

Face card poor four decks + face card rich three decks + face card super rich half deck + small card super rich half deck.

Small card super rich half deck + face card poor four decks + face card rich three decks + face card super rich half deck.

The above three are the same sequence but you better use the last one because it helps to see it clearer.

Think where you cut it so you can make money according to TC. The answer is none. The secret ingredient is that the small card rich half deck and face card super rich half deck are separate by 7 decks. So you build up TC but tens never come up. Or face cards came out fast and furious then TC stays negative.

[Three]

Counting uses an educated guess that low or high cards are coming. You would have foreknowledge of the same which is much more powerful. You get that bust hand in the T rich area surrender if allowed or stand. The dealer doesn't have that option when he gets the stiff in the high card zone. You would even know whether the hole card is a 100% T or a random card from remnants that have a combined TC that is very negative. You would know if the next card is a 100% T or a random card from the negative remnant after deducting all the stacked cards. If you can't figure out how to use that to your advantage that would have very low variance, you shouldn't be an AP. Just get out your recording device and say each card into it as dealt. Say hole card for the hole card and when the hole card is revealed say hole card is "X". Later put it to paper for many samples of the "evil setting".

[muffdiver]

Unfortunately, we don't know the degree of the concentration in each step or if the pit boss push the button to clump cards at all. Also, such a sequence is to use rising TC as the weapon against counters.

And I want people to think carefully where to cut it to benefit. The answer is no. Note because of step 5, the starting point could be anywhere in the shoe.

The shoe from the Hell:

Face card super rich half deck + small card super rich half deck + face card poor three decks + face card rich three decks.

These are the same shoe:

Face card poor three decks + face card rich three decks + face card super rich half deck + small card super rich half deck.

Small card super rich half deck + face card poor three decks + face card rich three decks + face card super rich half deck.

The above three are the same sequence but you better use the last one because it helps to see it clearer.

Think where you cut it so you can make money according to TC. The answer is none. The secret ingredient is that the small card rich half deck and face card super rich half deck are separate by 7 decks. So you build up TC but tens never come up. Or face cards came out fast and furious then TC stays negative.

I hope you're being a little facetious here. The pit boss isn't pushing any button and I'm quite sure that a button doesn't exist. As I've said many times before, the majority of my play is on ASM tables. Like most here, I believe in the integrity of the games I play because I simply can't see the casinos jeopardizing their gaming licenses by even attempting to mess with the machines.
In short, I believe that the technology probably exists but that 99.9% of casinos wouldn't use it for this very reason.

[Rudy]

I have sat on the first base and taken a peek on the operation of ASM. Saw a light like price scanner used in Target or Wal-Mart to scan bar code for price checking. I determined ASM can see if a card is an ace or ten. Then considering this algorithm to move all cards in left chamber to the empty right chamber using gravity:

1. Push a card half way, if it is a small card, push it from left chamber to right chamber. Do this step until there is 26 cards in the bottom of the right chamber. Step 1 is now complete. There are 26 cards, all small, in the bottom. ASM can go even further, to make it consists of five clump, six clump, seven clump and eight clump.

2. Push a card half way through to scan the bar code or use image processing technology. If it is a face card, push it though to the right chamber. Do this three times. Then push the next card through no matter what. We will have a three or four face cards clump depending on if the fourth card is face card. Repeat this seven times. Now we have half deck highly concentrating on tens.

3. For the next three decks, if a card to be push from left chamber to right chamber is a face card, there is a pre-determined possibility that it will trigger a face card clump. Basically, the ASM will push a card half way to see if it is a face card, push back if it is not, push through if it it. Repeat this a few times, to create a face cards clump.

4. Now the four deck left in the left chamber is face card poor because ASM extracted additional face cards in the previous steps. ASM just push card by card randomly from left chamber to right chamber.

5. In the end of the shuffle, ASM can do a special maneuver that move any cards in the bottom of the shoe to the top. Note it preserves the sequence it created. The purpose is that the player won't know where the highly face card rich half deck followed by the highly small cards rich half deck is located. (Funny thing is that I once saw pit boss opened an ASM machine and discovered four decks of cards collapsed on top of the perfectly shuffled four decks. It can happen only if someone or some machine tries to move four decks at once but lose the grab.)

For this randomized 8 deck shoe, you can't beat the casino no matter where you cut it, even given 85% penetration. Assuming ASM did not perform the step 5 maneuver. The best cut is 7 decks deep. The TC will plunge in the first half deck then rising. Basically the players will flat bet because of negative TC. The worst cut is 7.5 decks deep. The TC will be very positive initially then keep rising for the next 6 decks till the end of the shoe. But most face cards are hiding behind the yellow card.

OMG! These machines are made by aliens or illuminati! Very impressive how can you track all the entire shoe inside the machine from the first base, but is awesome how do you know how it works exactly and accurate all those machines. Knowing this, I can imagine that you always know exactly where to cut against an ASM, therefore, you should destroy the game anytime, anywhere, or at least, not to lose. You should write a book about it, and shut the f**k up to Snyder, Grosjean, etc...

[Rudy]

OMG! These machines are made by aliens or illuminati! Very impressive how can you track all the entire shoe inside the machine from the first base, but is awesome how do you know how it works exactly and accurate all those machines. Knowing this, I can imagine that you always know exactly where to cut against an ASM, therefore, you should destroy the game anytime, anywhere, or at least, not to lose. You should write a book about it, and shut the f**k up to Snyder, Grosjean, etc...

Wait! No...

[Aslan]

Any machine being patented by the US patent office should be on the up and up. That is not to say that the same technology could not be used for cheating purposes. In the case of using a number set that is not random to replace a number set that is truly random, that is a clear cheat, and would not be used by any mainstream casino since they have far too much to lose, as stated by others. But it is always good to keep such things in the back of your mind, not enough to allow yourself to become paranoid, but to keep your feet firmly planted on the ground realizing that anything is possible. If a machine used a predetermined "random set" of numbers to achieve a random shuffle, the substitution of a stacked shoe would be almost indiscernible in its place. Only access to that substituted set and computer analysis would prove the truth of what has been done. Also, the repetition of the same number sequences, without regard to suit, would be a dead giveaway of the use of predetermined number sets, unless multiple "random" or "stacked" sets were employed.

I hope I have not convinced anyone that these things are happening, because I don't think they are. I simply believe they can happen, and that detection would be difficult if they did happen. Hopefully, the disincentives to cheat remain high enough to keep casino gaming honest and above board.

We have seen major poker boards found cheating for tens of thousands of dollars, and yet no one is in jail. We know that when criminals get there foot inside the door of a gaming operation they are never content with a reasonable profit but will go for all the cash they can steal, as well, although even they are sensitive to things that threaten their licenses. Law enforcement lags behind the exploding technology of today, so it's best to be informed about such things.

As always, to be forewarned is to be forearmed. It is why I stopped gambling in private poker games many years ago. Just when you think you are hip to every cheat known to man, the cheats come up with new angles to rob you blind. I have heard it said that no poker game in someone's home for $5 or more is free from cheating. That may be an overstatement, but it is not far from the truth. Even your friendly poker parties with people from your office are subject to clever little cheats. For some strange reason, poker cheaters don't even consider it cheating-- to them it's just part of the game.

[21forme]

There was a story several years ago about a Nevada Gaming Agent whose job was to validate slot software. He created a rogue chip that paid his confederates with the correct sequence of button presses on machines that he swapped chips. There's nothing to prevent another hacker, rogue Agent, or casino employee from reprogramming Shufflemaster's shuffling firmware and swapping chips to sort the cards in a specific order.

[Three]

Most agencies where corruption is a problem rotate the overseers to prevent collusion with those being overseen. If I remember right that was just how the NG Agent got caught or perhaps it was one of his crew getting pinched and selling him out. I can't remember for sure but whatever happened that time doesn't change the fact that overseers tend to be rotted to help prevent collusion.

[Aslan]

I was playing DD at a CET property in Vegas several years ago and I noticed that the dealer had all the moves and characteristics of a "card man" if you know what I mean. He held the deck in the mechanics grip, he kept up a constant patter and moves of misdirection, he tilted the deck frequently which could allow for glimpsing a jacked up corner of the top card, and sometimes "pasted" hit cards on one's hand in a way that can easily deal seconds for those in the know. I stared in almost an obnoxious manner at his antics signaling by my extreme attention that I knew what he was all about. The moves became more agreeable, and the patter slowed down to a minimum, as I recorded my first score as a card counter in Vegas. Zengrifter later commented that I should have avoided that game because the rules were unfavorable, as I later learned was the case with all CET properties. The point of the story is that even in a reputable property, and this one was first class, a particular pit can be dishonest, maybe to jack their profit numbers up, I don't know their motivation, without the ownership knowing anything about it. I noticed, too, that nearly all the people that worked that pit were of the same ethnicity, meaning to me that someone, maybe the pit boss, had a free hand in hiring and picked people like himself, which also means they were probably "tighter" than the average pit crew. Had the management known what was going on, I'm sure a lot of heads would have rolled. Later I visited the same casino and that crew was no longer there, so maybe some heads did roll.

[roliin]

I'd like to hear Norm and DS take on this. If low and high cards are purposefully clumped, is it still random?

[muffdiver]

I'd like to hear Norm and DS take on this. If low and high cards are purposefully clumped, is it still random?

You can answer that question!

[ZenKinG]

Casinos would never be caught if thry know not to go overboard. And I'm sure many casinos do it. I actually will not be playing many ASMs in the future. But then again if one is paranoid so much about ASMs, who knows if hand shuffles are even legit either? They show the cards in front of you, sure, but its not like u can check every single card to see if its been stacked favorly for the house. I've always been skeptical, but I just play and just hope that the Gaming Board is strict on the issue and does casual checkups to keep the casinos honest and not let then risk such an action with so much to lose if caught. But then again what if the Gaming Board is in on this too? Can thry be trusted?

[Three]

But then again what if the Gaming Board is in on this too? Can thry be trusted?

Every time I have taken something to the commission or gaming control the casinos deeply regretted not working out the problem to my satisfaction. It would have cost them peanuts. Sometimes $19 sometimes just a long shot opportunity. Instead they end up paying hundreds of thousands in penalties and must deal the game by the rules after that which costs them even more. It always amazes me when games are dealt outside the rules specified by the governing authority and nobody challenges it. I will see the CBJN state that the casino does A when the state regs require B. I just think well until someone challenges it and nobody does until I show up. If the casino is smart they deal it fair while I am there and don't force me to settle it outside the casino. That is when they get the huge fines and never deal the game wrong again.

I try really hard to settle the dispute in house. If they refuse then it is in the commissions hands and the casino always regrets that. I know the regs on any game I play. They better capitulate when I make an issue of it. After several incidents I have agents in each jurisdiction on speed dial in my cell phone. Some of the time it took forever to find how to contact the commission or get a response though they may be slow they are fair in my area. It was funny I had an unresolved issue at a casino and made a complaint at one far away in the same state and got the same agent who had just resolved the issue at the other casino and hadn't called me yet. I found out the resolution of the first complaint was in my favor and the second one was quickly resolved. The funny thing is it seemed to get me more latitude like acting against me would be discrimination or something. Perhaps it was because I made it clear that I tried really hard to resolve it between me and the casino but they wanted to play the bully. One casino even brought a huge black guy to try to intimidate me. All it did was strengthen my resolve. It ended up being what made my mind up to go to the commission for the first time. I never dealt with the LV commission. I have heard they are not as useful as an overseer looking to right casino misconduct.