Indian Casinos

**code red** · 04-20-2014, 10:59 PM

Hello everyone. Here recently I've been playing at Indian casinos where they charge an ante, except when you have your players card it draws from the player promotional pool. Comps are based on by how many hands played instead of being decided on by the pit boss. Do you know if these type of casinos make money directly from the antes or do they skim money from the player funds?

If we assume I am playing at least 100 hands per hour with a 50 cent ante going to the casino that's $50 every hour. I've never been confronted about my play, such as wonging out under a true count of 1-2, or even had a pit boss stare me down. Would it even be worth for the management to back off a player that's yielding $50/hr to the casino in antes regardless what that player walks away with in his hand?

I'm really interested in what you may know about these operations and your opinion on the matter. I really don't want to get barred playing there but I would like to boost my EV knowing what I can get away with.

I appreciate it

**muckz** · 04-20-2014, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by code red

Hello everyone. Here recently I've been playing at Indian casinos where they charge an ante, except when you have your players card it draws from the player promotional pool. Comps are based on by how many hands played instead of being decided on by the pit boss. Do you know if these type of casinos make money directly from the antes or do they skim money from the player funds?

If we assume I am playing at least 100 hands per hour with a 50 cent ante going to the casino that's $50 every hour. I've never been confronted about my play, such as wonging out under a true count of 1-2, or even had a pit boss stare me down. Would it even be worth for the management to back off a player that's yielding $50/hr to the casino in antes regardless what that player walks away with in his hand?

I'm really interested in what you may know about these operations and your opinion on the matter. I really don't want to get barred playing there but I would like to boost my EV knowing what I can get away with.

I appreciate it

Judging from your past posts. I doubt you would be able to play with an advantage, what is your spread, $unit,count, penetration, rules?

Sorry for being blunt, I don't think you could make this game playable. It would be in your best interest to put that ante towards travel.

**code red** · 04-20-2014, 11:38 PM

I dont want to come off as a jerk but reread the first 2-3 sentences of my original post. Im playing rated

**muckz** · 04-20-2014, 11:51 PM

I don't understand the 2nd paragraph then.

**code red** · 04-20-2014, 11:56 PM

The 50 cent ante is transferred from the player promotional pool to the casino each hand the player is dealt if that player is playing rated. Therefore generating the casino money just by playing.

**muckz** · 04-21-2014, 08:59 AM

Yes, I understand that too, you just made it seem like you are going to be paying this ante out of pocket. From what I understand the casino is regulated in such a way that they are supposed to make their money off of the ante and supposedly "give back" the player portion which is from the normal .5% house advantage. This does not mean that this casino would act any differently to someone playing with an advantage. You should expect them to act like a a regular casino and be cautious. It seems like you want specific information on a casino, nobody is going to give you that information public.

**zerg** · 04-21-2014, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by code red

Hello everyone. Here recently I've been playing at Indian casinos where they charge an ante, except when you have your players card it draws from the player promotional pool. Comps are based on by how many hands played instead of being decided on by the pit boss. Do you know if these type of casinos make money directly from the antes or do they skim money from the player funds?

It is my understanding that in these situations, the law is that casinos cannot make money on gambling. They make their money from antes, and gambling wins/losses go into the players fund. The players fund is then suppose to go back to the players through promotions. In this case the "no ante" promotion from the sound of it.

If we assume I am playing at least 100 hands per hour with a 50 cent ante going to the casino that's $50 every hour. I've never been confronted about my play, such as wonging out under a true count of 1-2, or even had a pit boss stare me down. Would it even be worth for the management to back off a player that's yielding $50/hr to the casino in antes regardless what that player walks away with in his hand?

No, it wouldn't be "worth it" for management to back a winning player off. They are paid based on hands played. It would not be a rational decision. It would be a big mistake to assume the casino will act rationally, so this thought process doesn't help you make a decision about casino tolerance.

I'm really interested in what you may know about these operations and your opinion on the matter. I really don't want to get barred playing there but I would like to boost my EV knowing what I can get away with.

I appreciate it

Well, definitely don't pay ante. If I were in such a situation, my main focus would be getting a piece of that player pool. You are already doing that by "saving" money on the ante. Keep an eye out for other promotions you can take advantage of.

**code red** · 04-21-2014, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by zerg

Well, definitely don't pay ante

Ever since I've played there it's been free antes playing rated luckily. Good explanations though. It's good to know that they have the ante factor that might persuade them to let an AP continue. I'll amp up my game next trip and see what happens.

**bigplayer** · 04-21-2014, 08:45 PM

The tribe tracks total hands played and takes chips from the float periodically and drops them into the box for the ante and reduces the player win-pool by an equal amount. The net effect is no ante for the players but reduced giveback promotions later in the month (which is fine considering most tribes just skim out much of that money anyway so players never actually get back much of it). It does mean however that these tribes have a vested interest in making sure that the player pool shows a profit so they tend to be more aggressive at backing off skilled players as they'd have to make up any loss from the player pool (due to all of the skimming) out of tribal funds. If the tribes weren't skimming they shouldn't care about Advantage Players as they make their money from the Ante (like a Poker Room). The fact that they aggressively backoff skilled players shows the tribe has other hidden interests.

**code red** · 04-22-2014, 12:43 AM

So it very well could be the opposite of my prediction

. Maybe higher table min and wonging might be better camo then playing my normal table. It will look good if I move around a bit anyhow. thanks for your input bp

**RWM** · 04-22-2014, 08:23 AM

No matter what your "camo" you are playing rated so the casino will have your cumulative win. When that figure gets high enough to annoy them they will back you off.

**MJGolf** · 08-18-2014, 08:01 PM

I was playing BJ at one of the "no ante" Indian Casinos here locally this past weekend. Nice small win and free dinner.........LOL (Finally figuring out how to get comps from them v. the usual Vegas/Total Rewards deal). Now, not that I always believe everything a dealer or Pitboss says but two of them specifically told me that it didn't matter "didly" to them if players won. Dealer said wanted us to win because we tipped better. PB said, as long as they made the ante out of the pool, they didn't care whether or not players won. They hoped they did. Interesting take, huh? But it does support at least the "letter of the law" that these are "player banked" games and the tribes are just administering the games for their "small cut". Any opinions?