JW and don't know if it's right to ask:0

[TXAP420]

Still fairly new at this and wondering if it is still possible to make a sole living or even a main source of income off of card counting with the conditions of casino rules, surveillance, heat, ext. nowadays?? I would hate to bluntly ask if it is wrong but, are any of you achieving this nowadays?? I have made it my goal to succeed in the card counting world, by reading, studying, researching the web, and most importantly practicing day in and day out, and would hate to continue doing so if it would all just be a waste of time. Have a good one guys and hope to get a response soon!

[RS]

Best off to have a regular job and play on the side. Play other games too and learn other ways to gain an advantage in a casino (video poker for instance). I don't think I would Ever consider quitting my day job and strictly earning my income from AP....unless I just had way too much money and hated my job...neither of which are true right now.

It's real hard to play BJ solo 100% on your own dime. Variance is a nast b****.

[Smartpart]

IMO it's not viable to CC primarily for anyone without a sizable bankroll(50k+), a set of brass stones, and a disregard for money.

[blackjackomaha]

Is it possible? Yes. There are a few who make counting their "full-time job." I'll leave it to the full-timers to describe how they've succeeded, but there isn't a "one-size fits all" solution. KJ has done an outstanding job describing some of his experiences, so I would make it a priority to read his posts.

If you're reading and studying, I assume you know about the necessary BR requirements and importance of selecting quality games. There are plenty of external factors that can make/break wanna-be full-timers, but unless you live in an area with a LOT of different games, you'll undoubtedly be traveling quite a bit. If you can't consistently travel, then being a full-timer is out of the question. It can be a lonely road and the decision to try to go full-time requires a substantial commitment.

Good Luck.

[SiMi]

Howdy, again!

FWIW, I use it for supplement. I would first ask: How much do you need? Before answering, consider this (perhaps obvious) idea: The less money you need to get by, the easier it will be no matter what you do for a living. If you earn a dollar, you'll pay tax of, say, 33% on that. But, you can NOT SPEND a dollar and it all goes to your bottom line. Since you can control expenses more than income, it's usually easier to adopt a frugal lifestyle than it is to make more money. Maybe that could be part of your training for a life of counting...

If you need $5,000 per month NET to live and your BJ game (assuming that's all you do for AP) is $100 per hour EV, then you'll need at least a $50,000 Bankroll to come close to 5% RoR and you'll have to play about 75 hours a month to cover the taxes and your nut, plus BJ-related expenses of maybe 10-20 hours a month, depending on your situation. So, total is maybe 90 hours a month. If you only need $2,000 per month, then you'll need to play maybe 40 hours per month to cover everything. They're both possible but the latter is much more likely, IMHO! If you live in LV, it becomes easier.

That doesn't deal with a reserve for neg. variance and many other things like loss of health insurance if you quit a good job, personal issues and I'm sure there's lots of other issues that make it tough. OTOH, I read constantly that 80% of all new small businesses fail within the first year. If you think of BJ as a business and your RoR is 5%, you're WAY AHEAD of the typical small entrepreneur!!

I hope this helps a bit!
SiMi

[biggg]

I don't think there are enough stores in the world to do this for a living and 50k is not enough. If I were a pro AP I would probably never count at BJ as it isn't worth the exposure. There are tons of places that will back you off for 1 hour of BJ play that are completely clueless about anything else.

All that said there are tons of ways to make money at gambling and many are easier than learning to count. Most are very easy, you just have to put in the time or have enough friends.

[stopgambling]

I would say one at least need 50k -100k for a 400 plus max bets, which equates to $125-$200 max bets. Any smaller bank for the max bets described is a gamble. Even with 400 of $125 max bets , it is not even a indistructable bank ( If 1 have a 1000-2000 max bets ,maybe ). There is also the need to get to the long run( N0 x 9? N0 x 16?) The variance of your bank will simply devour most aspiring pro counter.The condition is simply not that great for solo , "count only" games. For recreation ,cc is a viable approach. There are few that can make it as a solo pro card counter due to all the constraints. Look at the post made by one of our member in a clear picture form.http://www.blackjacktheforum.com/sho...Bad-trip/page3

[seriousplayer]

All that said there are tons of ways to make money at gambling and many are easier than learning to count. Most are very easy, you just have to put in the time or have enough friends.

I am interested in finding out the ways you describe to make money at gambling other than learning to count. However, I am only interested in it if it give me an advantage over the casino and not hustlering. If you will could you contact me with more info. If not than forget about it.

[muffdiver]

I don't think there are enough stores in the world to do this for a living and 50k is not enough. If I were a pro AP I would probably never count at BJ as it isn't worth the exposure. There are tons of places that will back you off for 1 hour of BJ play that are completely clueless about anything else.

All that said there are tons of ways to make money at gambling and many are easier than learning to count. Most are very easy, you just have to put in the time or have enough friends.

I'd be curious to know how many of those "tons" are ethical and/or legal?

[biggg]

Sports betting
Mailers / bonuses
Comp plays
Hole card games
Progressives

(These are the easy ones)

[muffdiver]

Sports betting
Mailers / bonuses
Comp plays
Hole card games
Progressives

(These are the easy ones)

Okay, but #2 and #3 are the only ones I consider "easy" and many people question the ethics of HCing. Guess it all comes down to one's perspective.

[Skull]

Sports betting

Sorry, but if you find sports betting easy, either you:

1 - are a genius;
2 - have constant insider information;
3 - have been lucky and interpret that as if handicapping sports were easy;
4 - are clueless about what you are saying.