Question on CVCX penetration charts.

**Skull** · 03-30-2014, 11:16 AM

Hey guys!

The good news is that I finally bought CVCX and CVData; the bad news is that you will have to put up with hundreds of probably silly questions

I am playing around with CVCX Viewer and noticed some weird behavior. If you compare both images attached, you will see different ROR penetration charts. To go from one to the other, all I did was to check the "Manually Adjust Min Bet" button and then update the chart.

Why are they so different?

I know I am missing something, but can't figure out what.

Thanks for any help!

Best!
kelly.jpg manual.jpg

**Norm** · 03-30-2014, 11:39 AM

If you force a minimum bet, the min bet may be optimal for the current penetration. But, it won't be for most of the other penetrations in the penetration chart.

**Skull** · 03-30-2014, 12:52 PM

OK, got it! Thanks!

But then I have another question.

Even when not manually setting the min bet, the ROR charts (and win rate and others as well) show very choppy patterns; even a one card increase in penetration may INCREASE ROR from 0.3 to 2% (attached image)! First, I would believe ROR should decrease with increased pen; second I would never imagine such a drastic change.

Is the same thing happening here; it calculates the optimal min bet for the given pen and ROR and then uses it throughout all other penetrations in the chart?

ror.jpg

**muckz** · 03-30-2014, 01:21 PM

If using the kelly factor tool, it will update the betting spread for each penetration. You can see this by changing the penetration from 73% to 80%, you will be given a new betting spread with (more than likely) a new minimum bet.

**Norm** · 03-30-2014, 01:37 PM

If you could bet fractions of a penny, the RoR chart would be smooth. You can't. You have a min. bet size of $5 and are asking for rational bets. So, given those parameters, it will do as well as it can to provide the requested RoR. But, as penetration increases, it must occasionally jump up the min bet, causing a jump in RoR, which will then decrease until the next jump.

**Skull** · 03-30-2014, 02:08 PM

Yes, after muckz's answer I was beginning to approach that understanding. Your explanation was perfect, thanks a lot!

Thank you too muckz!

Just one last question not necessarily related to the OP if you don't mind...

I cannot define cover betting patterns in CVCX, right? In order to do so, I need CVData, right?
My question: After making a simulation in CVData with cover and then looking at the results in the CVCX viewer, is the optimal betting ramp it shows taking into consideration the cover bets previously set?

**Norm** · 03-30-2014, 02:21 PM

Correct, CVCX cannot handle cover play as its results are calculated post-sim. Simply not possible. Optimal play and cover play are contradictory anyhow. The purpose of using the CVCX viewer from a CVData sim is to generate optimal betting and alter the CVData results accordingly. So, cover aspects will be removed. However, if the CVData strategy called for differing the number of hands in a round, from one to seven, that aspect will be retained and the optimal betting ramps and results created will be based on multiple hands where called for.