Profitable Table, Spread?

[TeepsConPeeps]

I found a table where I live that is single deck, S17, surrender permitted, DAS, RSA, split up to 4x, 70% pen, and (unfortunately) 6:5 payout... now I'm thinking that the fact that this table offers surrender and is DAS and RSA slightly makes up for the lower bj payout (although I'm sure many will disagree). The min on the table is $3, max is $100. This is how I've currently been spreading: tc 0: $3, 1: $10, 2: $20, 3: $30, 4: $40, 5: $50, and 6: $60 ... 1-20 spread. I've only played around 4 hours on this table and have averaged $55/hour. Would you play this table? Is this a profitable spread?

I've been counting about 6 months, so I'm still pretty new to this... any help is greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

[bigplayer]

IF they let you spread 1:20 and deal 70% of the deck you're probably able to get a decent edge, but unless you're always virtually heads up I doubt it's $55/hr with a top bet of $60. You're still facing a roughly 1.1% edge off the top. I wouldn't play that game unless I was heads up

[TeepsConPeeps]

IF they let you spread 1:20 and deal 70% of the deck you're probably able to get a decent edge, but unless you're always virtually heads up I doubt it's $55/hr with a top bet of $60. You're still facing a roughly 1.1% edge off the top. I wouldn't play that game unless I was heads up

If the payout was 3:2, the house edge would only be 0.2% - does this 6:5 payout really increase the house edge by almost an entire percent?

Also, I've been wonging out at negative 2, so for the most part, I am only playing positive counts.

There is a 6 deck game right next door, same table min/max, 70% pen, NO surrender, 3:2 payout (all other rules the same as sd game)... With my same betting ramp, would you recommend this game over the single deck?

[muffdiver]

Yes, no doubt about it!

[TeepsConPeeps]

Yes, no doubt about it!

Yes to the 6 deck game? Or yes to the original single deck game?

[mofungoo]

Both, I believe.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

The "St. Jude's Count" works well in this game with a large spread and uncrowded conditions.

A Level 3 (unbalanced) Count that demotes the Ace (of course) and promotes the 9's and 5's.

Contact me for further info . . .

[SiMi]

Hi, TCP!

I use an older program called Blackjack 678 (written by Hal Marcus) for my sims because I know how to use it reasonably well and quickly. If someone is good at CVCX, I'd like to hear if they get different results...

Anyway, I used your info on the SD game and assumed: Late Surrender, Ins is taken at +3, Ins pays 2:1, dealer burns 1 card. I can't Wong you out at -2 so I reduced your bet to $1 at -2 and lower to try to get closer to that. (The program won't let me enter a $0 bet or specify a Wong out point, as far as I can figure out.) I ran 3 sims of 10 million hands each and they showed a win rate of over 1.8% with $17 per hour. That is a VERY high win rate so I double checked all my input and ran it again and got the same thing.

The spread is very high for a SD game (I'm used to 4:1) and the rules are favorable but for the 6:5 BJ payout. So, maybe that makes sense.

Then, I ran the same rules except for a 6 deck 3:2 game and got a return of just under 1% with $7 per hour win rate.

Based on this, the SD game is the better game.

I hope someone who is good with CVCX can do the same thing I did and report his/her findings. I also hope this helps!

SiMi

[muffdiver]

Both, I believe.

Correct.

[mrw464]

6:5 is usually really difficult to overcome but 70% pen and the generous rules can help. I'd pursue Zen's advice for a specific count, in combination of heads up. The playability depends in large part in your ability to spread heavily and sustain such spreading. 6:5 increases the house edge more than any other rule I believe, though I could be wrong. That 6D game is quite good. If you can really pull off big spreads on that SD than it's quite viable, I have no clue how tolerant casinos are with 6:5 tables, as I never play them.

[bigplayer]

Yes, no doubt about it!

Strong +1

Each half-bet bonus on a blackjack is worth 2.3%. 6/5 reduces that bonus by 60% (from a 50% bonus to a 20% bonus). 0.023 * 0.6 = 1.38% which is what 6/5 adds to the house advantage.

[TeepsConPeeps]

Strong +1

Each half-bet bonus on a blackjack is worth 2.3%. 6/5 reduces that bonus by 60% (from a 50% bonus to a 20% bonus). 0.023 * 0.6 = 1.38% which is what 6/5 adds to the house advantage.

Wow, that is a solid disadvantage to overcome... thank you (and everyone else) for the info. SiMi's simulation seems to indicate that my aggressive spread gives me enough advantage to beat the game here - so I might as well give it a go until that spread attracts significant heat.

The 6 deck game I described seems a beatable game as well... does my 1-20 spread there make sense or would you recommend doubling my bet unit and reaching max bet sooner? i.e. tc 0: $3, 1: $10, 2: $30, 3: $50, 4: $60?

Thank you everyone for the input!

Cheers

[mrw464]

I'd stick with that spread if heat permits it. If heat/tolerance does not, mix it up and use cover as you see fit