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Thread: William Hill live BJ scam?

  1. #14
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    I played at 60-some online casinos when they came out. I only discovered one that I was certain cheated. It's gone. There have been online (and offline) casinos that cheated. They are not common. Doesn't mean you shouldn't be vigilant. But, you are unlikely to pick it up yourself. Better to trust sites that look into such.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  2. #15


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    Norm, were you able to make money online playing blackjack?
    Were there games online you thought were worth playing?

  3. #16
    Random number herder Norm's Avatar
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    My purpose was to investigate the field more than make money. I did end up making money -- but mainly because I hit a couple of jackpots at VP.
    "I don't think outside the box; I think of what I can do with the box." - Henri Matisse

  4. #17


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    Thank you. No BJ online then.

  5. #18
    Senior Member UK-21's Avatar
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    The OP is referring to WH's "live" casino - one where you play on a real table, dealt by a real dealer with a pulse, usually based in another country where the wages are garbage (for WH I think it's based in Latvia) and connected up to the players via a video link across the web.

    This could certainly be rigged, but it would involve having to stack the shoe - something I think unlikely with a big, allegedly reputable firm, like Hills.

    I think this one is simply a case of making a judgement off of the back of fairly limited previous results?
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  6. #19
    Senior Member Tarzan's Avatar
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    Lack of oversight or collusion of any kind opens up windows of opportunity that greed fills quickly. First allow me to start off with saying that I have no idea what the business practices of that particular European online gambling site are and this has nothing to do with that; I'm only saying that it would be incredibly easy to "spike the punch" if you wanted to.
    Let's say I wanted to score a little higher on the house advantage. I wouldn't need many people in the know if I didn't have many procedures to get around, so I insure the procedure is easy enough to circumvent is all! Simply don't change out the cards and never lay the cards face up on the table. When a table closes down the cards are placed into a Ziploc bag and reused instead of starting out with fresh packs of cards. All of these are standard practices in a few of the Native American casinos I have been in but one in particular sticks out where the count stayed positive much of the time and those small cards kept a pumpin' away and I questioned what I was seeing occur over even a few hours of play here and there over some days time on more than one occasion. I'm not saying Native American casinos do this as a practice and only that I think there's one that does. They have the right rules in place with regard to handling the cards to where you wouldn't need a "mechanic" for a dealer or any other such nonsense, only a small conspiracy among your middle management. You stack the deck up on your shoe game, adding some extra small cards (by removing some {T}), trading out what you think you can get away with. You would know what tables have the "special" decks. If you can swing the right conditions to pull this off in a brick and mortar casino, then you can bet your mule that it would be equally easy (if not much easier) to swing this over a video screen without having to be Penn and Teller to pull it off... I could trade out one set of {2-5} or remove some {T} and jack up the edge just a notch, it would be all but unnoticeable, the dealer and anyone else would be oblivious with the conspiracy confined to whatever select few so no knowledge of the operation leaks. If there's no chance of getting caught then... why not?

    Let's say I ran a joint called "Tarzan's Whorehouse, Casino and Cocktail Lounge" in a mythical land in which there are no legal restraints of any kind. I notice that I need to jack some sh*t around here to keep the "loss-leaders" in place in a cost-effective manner. In other words, make the people pay for what is being tossed their way instead of it cutting into the profits. I simply have my online/internet portion of the casino operation work with a stacked deck short of some {T} is all. As long as I don't spread the entire shoe face up for inspection I am in the clear! Can you inspect the decks or do they change out the cards to fresh packs at any point? If you see a consistently positive count for an unusually higher percentage of the time you could record the information and have an indication but not proof without inspecting the decks. With this small adjustment, I would make the game tough for anyone playing, I would clobber the counters and it would be hard to detect, especially if the guys that are doing the oversight to insure everything is on the up and up are also part of the same organization. ~~~ Where there is a crevice of opportunity to pull off something not above board when it comes to making a buck will people be held back over moral issues or will the only consideration be whether they can pull it off or not? We don't need to do a complete interview and analysis of Bernie Madoff to grasp the gist of this subject to make an educated guess.

    On another disclaimer, should I ever open up "Tarzan's Whorehouse, Casino & Cocktail Lounge" in a magical mythical land in which there are no laws against much of anything at all, I promise to offer a fair game of blackjack in which cards are regularly changed out and available face up for inspection because I am a swell guy like that.
    Last edited by Tarzan; 03-15-2014 at 04:52 PM.

  7. #20
    Senior Member Bodarc's Avatar
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    What I'm wondering is who would visit the casino portion in that mythical land in which there are no laws against much of anything at all?

  8. #21


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    Lol, I like the name of your place.

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