How does seat effect impacts Blackjack Advantage Play?

**seriousplayer** · 03-01-2014, 04:12 PM

Could someone explain to me what is seat effect and how seat effect have an impact on advantage play in Blackjack? I want to know does seat effect affects card counting negatively. Where can I read about it?

This not meant to be a voodoo question since I got the term "seat effect" from CVDATA when doing sims.

**Three** · 03-01-2014, 04:28 PM

Third base is the best because you get to make your playing decision with the most accurate information. First base may decide to hit his matchup at a TC of 0 but by the time the dealer plays his hand the TC may have moved considerably. Third base decides with a TC that changes little before the dealer plays his hand. Match up playing decisions are based on the assumption that both play their hands at about the same TC. That assumption is most valid for third base and becomes less valid with each spot as you move toward first base. This affect is pretty negligible though but does give 3rd base a slight edge.

There is no betting advantage to any seat as you all make your bets with the same information and then the next 2 times the number of hands in cards are dealt at the same time. No decisions or changes can be made while the cards are being dealt. They could be viewed as being dealt similtaneosly.

**seriousplayer** · 03-01-2014, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

Third base is the best because you get to make your playing decision with the most accurate information. First base may decide to hit his matchup at a TC of 0 but by the time the dealer plays his hand the TC may have moved considerably. Third base decides with a TC that changes little before the dealer plays his hand. Match up playing decisions are based on the assumption that both play their hands at about the same TC. That assumption is most valid for third base and becomes less valid with each spot as you move toward first base. This affect is pretty negligible though but does give 3rd base a slight edge.

There is no betting advantage to any seat as you all make your bets with the same information and then the next 2 times the number of hands in cards are dealt at the same time. No decisions or changes can be made while the cards are being dealt. They could be viewed as being dealt similtaneosly.

Question: I ran a simulation in CVDATA for a single deck games H17 DOA NDAS 50% penetration with three players. The player in the first seat uses a level one count with about 29 indices spreading to two hand on positive counts, the player at the second seat uses Advance Omega II with Full indices and the player at third seat used Advance Omega II with Full indices both with 1-4 bet spread playing one hand. Play all for all three strategies. How come the simulation shows that the player at the third seat have a negative expectation? Is it because of the penetration or the seat effect?

**Norm** · 03-01-2014, 05:02 PM

The player at third base was not set up correctly. Make sure all the Playing Strategy, Betting Strategy and TC Calc screens are set up correctly for the third seat.

**seriousplayer** · 03-01-2014, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

The player at third base was not set up correctly. Make sure all the Playing Strategy, Betting Strategy and TC Calc screens are set up correctly for the third seat.

I will double check to see if the third seat is set up correctly.

**Jabberwocky** · 03-01-2014, 05:35 PM

Seat effect is a non-issue for me. I play all the holes or have the table reserved.

**seriousplayer** · 03-01-2014, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Norm

The player at third base was not set up correctly. Make sure all the Playing Strategy, Betting Strategy and TC Calc screens are set up correctly for the third seat.

The Playing Strategy, Betting Strategy, and TC Calculation is set up correctly for the third seat. I am still getting a negative expectation. I am still trying to figure that out.

**Goatlife** · 03-01-2014, 07:11 PM

maybe the counter on first base eating more cards in positive rounds has something to do with it.

try making everyone play one hand and see what happens... something seems wrong though besides the card eating effect

**Three** · 03-01-2014, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by seriousplayer

Where can I read about it?

http://www.blackjackincolor.com/penetration10.htm

**Norm** · 03-02-2014, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by seriousplayer

The Playing Strategy, Betting Strategy, and TC Calculation is set up correctly for the third seat. I am still getting a negative expectation. I am still trying to figure that out.

Open the configuration. Go to Tools-Export and send me the sim.

**seriousplayer** · 03-02-2014, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by Norm

Open the configuration. Go to Tools-Export and send me the sim.

Sim attached

**ZenMaster_Flash** · 03-02-2014, 12:21 PM

The importance of seat selection is inversely proportional to:

the number of decks in play.

depth of penetration.

degree of crowdedness.

It is of greater importance with

Less decks. (read 1 or 2 decks)

2 players only.

> 86% penetration (in shoes).

**Norm** · 03-02-2014, 01:12 PM

The third player is using heavy cover betting. Not good in a single-deck game. On the summary page,you can hit Call CVCX. This will ignore the betting strategies used and provide the SCOREs with optimal betting.