Suggestions for suggestive dealers

**counter19** · 02-16-2014, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by genini1

The only problem I have with raising the bet after their advice is it tends to engender a sense of entitlement. They gave you advice on what to do so they deserve a reward for that and if you are red chipping then cover plays like upping your bet in bad counts and tipping to avoid an early exit can seriously eat into your bottom line.

Entitlement? Well, I don't know about that. Of course I play at small joints where they all know me and we all get along. As far as eating at my bottom line, this is just something to do every once in a while. I would only want to do this if the circumstances were what was stated previously. You and the rest of the table are winning even though the count is neutral or slightly negative. This doesn't happen often as this is just a short-term reality of the cards sometimes. You win even though the count isn't good.

So………...…if this happens (which it doesn't all the time) AND the dealer happens to make these comments about raising the bet, why not? I would do this much less often than even tipping. It's a rare circumstance that both of these things happen at the same time. Surely I can afford to risk one unit in these precise circumstances to look like I believe in luck.

I do appreciate your scrutiny nevertheless. It makes us all better players to examine such things and I can certainly appreciate your policy of cutting expenses as much as possible.

RS · 02-16-2014, 01:44 PM

If you're red chipping (actually, betting at any level) and cannot afford to double your min bet for 1 (or a few) rounds once in a blue moon during a fairly neutral shoe....there are problems.

**counter19** · 02-16-2014, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by RollingStoned

If you're red chipping (actually, betting at any level) and cannot afford to double your min bet for 1 (or a few) rounds once in a blue moon during a fairly neutral shoe....there are problems.

Exactly. If one unit will make or brake you, then the profit potential is not worth it to begin with.

**Smartpart** · 02-17-2014, 03:49 AM

I'm thinking that you guys are way over analyzing this. Just act like a normal person.

**counter19** · 02-17-2014, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by Smartpart

I'm thinking that you guys are way over analyzing this. Just act like a normal person.

Are you referring to the entire thread or the most recent comments?

Acting like a "normal" person in my casino means being superstitious and believing in unicorns and fairies. As for me, since I only have a few casinos in the area that I go to and I have to play rated, longevity is paramount. Rat holing and camouflage plays are a must if I wish to survive.

I would rather over analyze any day than to risk "the tap."

**SiMi** · 02-17-2014, 09:08 AM

c19

Me, too. My situation is similar but I've avoided being rated so far. I have to do everything I can re: longevity so I spend a lot of time thinking about it. "The tap" is going to be a VERY bad day for me. It means driving 4 hours to crappy conditions vs. 2 hours to excellent conditions.

I appreciate all the comments and ideas here. I think I'll have to pretend to take the Dealer's 'advice' and place 2 units down and, if I win, add a toke bet on the next hand and that should stall things for a while. I don't have a better answer.

However, you can get into a hand that has splits and double downs and you've now got 4 or more units on a -EV hand that started out as a 2 unit hand to appease the pushy Dealer. So, it's not just as simple as putting up 1 more unit.

**genini1** · 02-17-2014, 10:38 AM

There's no real right or wrong answer. If you put a unit up and it buys longevity then it is certainly money well spent and just becomes a cost of doing business in the same way I factor in gas. My only concern is that if you start tipping when the dealer is giving you advice then they are going to see that and start offering more advice. It's certainly possible that I'm just trying to min-max my EV as much as possible, but that's also where the fun is for me. Since I only play as a hobby trying to get the absolute most I can from them is where the thrill is.

**SiMi** · 02-17-2014, 10:58 AM

g1

Yes, the "tipping=more advice" issue is a very good point. It's a sticky issue to me and that's why I asked for ideas.

**SiMi** · 02-17-2014, 11:03 AM

Tthree

Thanks! Those are EXCELLENT suggestions! I like, "I'm finally winning so I don't want to change anything. Let it flow!" And, "Doesn't that string of wins make me due for a loss? I wish I could LOWER my bet!" (I'm already betting min. so I can't go lower.) That's a great line...

**muffdiver** · 02-17-2014, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by SiMi

c19

Me, too. My situation is similar but I've avoided being rated so far. I have to do everything I can re: longevity so I spend a lot of time thinking about it. "The tap" is going to be a VERY bad day for me. It means driving 4 hours to crappy conditions vs. 2 hours to excellent conditions.

I appreciate all the comments and ideas here. I think I'll have to pretend to take the Dealer's 'advice' and place 2 units down and, if I win, add a toke bet on the next hand and that should stall things for a while. I don't have a better answer.

However, you can get into a hand that has splits and double downs and you've now got 4 or more units on a -EV hand that started out as a 2 unit hand to appease the pushy Dealer. So, it's not just as simple as putting up 1 more unit.

The splits and double downs don't have to be played but if you're proficient with indices play you'll no whether or not you should.

RS · 02-17-2014, 03:34 PM

However, you can get into a hand that has splits and double downs and you've now got 4 or more units on a -EV hand that started out as a 2 unit hand to appease the pushy Dealer. So, it's not just as simple as putting up 1 more unit

That's after-the-fact. If the TC is between -1 and +1, your EV will be between -1% to 0%.

**counter19** · 02-17-2014, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by SiMi

c19

However, you can get into a hand that has splits and double downs and you've now got 4 or more units on a -EV hand that started out as a 2 unit hand to appease the pushy Dealer. So, it's not just as simple as putting up 1 more unit.

Yeah, I have thought about that a lot. It is the most obvious disadvantage. However, nobody is going to force you to double down or split. And if you don't, you are further promoting the idea that you are a loser, which is good. If I were a pit boss or dealer, I would definitely be wondering why you didn't double down that 11 against a 6. If the dealer asks, you could just make up some mumbo jumbo about how you didn't think a face card was coming or any other excuse based on a "feeling."

**counter19** · 02-17-2014, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by genini1

My only concern is that if you start tipping when the dealer is giving you advice then they are going to see that and start offering more advice.

Man, you guys must deal (pardon the pun) with some pushy dealers. Where I play, I would never expect that to happen. I am not used to any dealers even subtly trying to get tips. They're always really nice no matter what. If I ever play anywhere else in the country, I need to make sure that I go in prepared for this possibility.