Looking for info on DMHE/Gordon method

[Distant]

Hi all, I've been a reader of this forum on and off for the last couple years trying to read up the old threads. Recently saw a post mention a possible new book from Tarzan, I become curious and read all his posts on his method. Long story short, after couple hours googling on D.H. Mitchell and Gordon count, the info come up very sparse for me to start learning this system. I'm a newbie at this counting, have tried hilo and bought Verite software but haven't done anything meaningful with it, mainly because I haven't found a counting method I like. But this Tarzan count system really got me interested. I'm looking for as much information on the theory behind this Gordon/DMHE count system to start learning it (Since Tarzan's is not published and according to his posts, the theory is the same) and would appreciate any pointer as to where to get it. Cheers

[Three]

Not many today have the counting chops to keep 4 simultaneous running counts. Most people have trouble keeping one simple side count. Some have the chops to learn it quickly but that is rare today. People just aren't as skilled at counting as they used to be. Too many think more than a main count or a minimal number of indices is too much work like they think the casino will just hand them money and they don't need every advantage they can get.

[Blitzkrieg]

People just aren't as skilled at counting as they used to be. Too many think more than a main count or a minimal number of indices is too much work like they think the casino will just hand them money and they don't need every advantage they can get.

What would you attribute it to? Players just not putting in the work, lack of discipline, or has technology/software in BJ made players lazier over the years...

[Three]

There area lot of personal choices. The skills required reap larger benefits in other games, so maybe they feel if they wanted to make the effort they would not be playing BJ. Some make it up by maximizing using a simple count by multitasking in other ways than just the count. Some are just lazy and want to put the minimal effort forward to get an exploitable advantage.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Distant,

You'll not find what you are looking for, as Mitchell published several
counts that are no different than those that we are all familiar with.

What equates to the Tarzan System was NEVER published. Dr. Mitchell
charged $1,000 per day for private lessons and that was in the 1970's.

[Distant]

The area that I live in likely offers all those varieties in abundance. I've actually liked HiLo a lot, I felt pretty powerful when the count was high, my bet was according hi, and I got dealt blackjacks...then I lost all my entertaiment "BR" trying the HiLo count in various stores and went cold turkey for more than a year now. Coming back to BJ I've forgotten almost everything about Basic Strategy and counting and thought since I'm rebooting my learning why not pick a different counting method, one that has a little bit more of the predicting power. Thanks for your interest, do you have any suggestion as to where I can get the info on Gordon/Tarzan count ?

[Distant]

Thanks for your reply, I guess that would put a serious stop sign to my quest. I might have to dig in deeper for a better understanding of the blackjack theory and trying to work it out somehow (as an absolute last resort since I know it's pretty involved and difficult and that I might not have the capacity and time for it)

Distant,

You'll not find what you are looking for, as Mitchell published several
counts that are no different than those that we are all familiar with.

What equates to the Tarzan System was NEVER published. Dr. Mitchell
charged $1,000 per day for private lessons and that was in the 1970's.

[Dtb239]

The area that I live in likely offers all those varieties in abundance. I've actually liked HiLo a lot, I felt pretty powerful when the count was high, my bet was according hi, and I got dealt blackjacks...then I lost all my entertaiment "BR" trying the HiLo count in various stores and went cold turkey for more than a year now. Coming back to BJ I've forgotten almost everything about Basic Strategy and counting and thought since I'm rebooting my learning why not pick a different counting method, one that has a little bit more of the predicting power. Thanks for your interest, do you have any suggestion as to where I can get the info on Gordon/Tarzan count ?

By the sound of it you were over betting your bankroll. Do you have cvcx to understand the risk associated with your bet spread based of your bankroll? There are more efficient counts than hilo, but all have variance.

[ZeeBabar]

Hi all, I've been a reader of this forum on and off for the last couple years trying to read up the old threads. Recently saw a post mention a possible new book from Tarzan, I become curious and read all his posts on his method. Long story short, after couple hours googling on D.H. Mitchell and Gordon count, the info come up very sparse for me to start learning this system. I'm a newbie at this counting, have tried hilo and bought Verite software but haven't done anything meaningful with it, mainly because I haven't found a counting method I like. But this Tarzan count system really got me interested. I'm looking for as much information on the theory behind this Gordon/DMHE count system to start learning it (Since Tarzan's is not published and according to his posts, the theory is the same) and would appreciate any pointer as to where to get it. Cheers

Its not the count that matters (after all, some top BJ players use Hi-Lo) as much as money management, bet spreads and choice of games. I too was thrilled at early success and assumed that with high counts I will win more hands than the dealer and over bet and one bad streak wiped out all the winnings over several trips. The game has changed a lot and learning to figure out rules, penetration and desirability of games is critical as well as Wonging (in and/or out).

[Distant]

My so called BR is actually only couple hundreds dollars per session on 5 dollar minimum tables, with 3 unit max spread. My goal is to make it last as long as possible so that I can enjoy the game longer, hopefully for free, or with minimum loss. Toward that goal, in order to make up for my pitiful "BR" per session, I thought a more powerful counting method would help.

By the sound of it you were over betting your bankroll. Do you have cvcx to understand the risk associated with your bet spread based of your bankroll? There are more efficient counts than hilo, but all have variance.

[Distant]

Towards the end of my first foray into the world of blackjack couple years ago I've narrowed down to stores with better pen (~75%), I prefer DD games, probably because with 6D games I've always come out with loss and single deck game is just too frequent with shuffle interruptions. I've tried wonging but other players don't appreciate it too much and most of the times not possible since those stores are pretty busy, as soon as you wong out someone will take your seat. Also many DD games do not allow mid shoe entry.

Its not the count that matters (after all, some top BJ players use Hi-Lo) as much as money management, bet spreads and choice of games. I too was thrilled at early success and assumed that with high counts I will win more hands than the dealer and over bet and one bad streak wiped out all the winnings over several trips. The game has changed a lot and learning to figure out rules, penetration and desirability of games is critical as well as Wonging (in and/or out).

[Tarzan]

Hi all, I've been a reader of this forum on and off for the last couple years trying to read up the old threads. Recently saw a post mention a possible new book from Tarzan, I become curious and read all his posts on his method. Long story short, after couple hours googling on D.H. Mitchell and Gordon count, the info come up very sparse for me to start learning this system. I'm a newbie at this counting, have tried hilo and bought Verite software but haven't done anything meaningful with it, mainly because I haven't found a counting method I like. But this Tarzan count system really got me interested. I'm looking for as much information on the theory behind this Gordon/DMHE count system to start learning it (Since Tarzan's is not published and according to his posts, the theory is the same) and would appreciate any pointer as to where to get it. Cheers

The groupings are the same as Gordon/DHME but the actual mechanics of the system differ. Currently there are exactly two people at the beginnings of trying to learn this system. I am trying to teach this to these two people just to see if it can be done as a matter of fact. The question has come up about just how many people are suited to tackle this method and these concerns are well justified. The problem is that there is no half way when learning any counting system at all, whether simplistic or more difficult and it's a fairly long road to mastery of this method.

I've been trying to come up with the best format for laying out the parameters of this system. No matter how well you know something, teaching it to someone else is something else altogether. Go read KJ's post on his frustrations with trying to train his two friends how to play blackjack. He's trying to teach these guys Hi-Lo and they aren't with the program apparently. I doubt this is inability to teach on KJ's part but more to do with their inability to learn and understand. I need to make it into an organized and streamlined format that is easy to understand and even then it's likely that very few people will ever be able to master it. I've been getting feedback from these two people along the way as I have been working on "the document", the official comprehensive guide on how to do this and how it works which I hope to complete this year. Ultimately there will probably be a whopping 7 people worldwide that will actually learn this method so I better keep my day job from the sounds of it!

I recommend learning or sticking with something else at least for now for several reasons as follows:
- Information on DHME is sparse at best and you won't get "the whole enchilada", which you need to be truly effective.
- You need a thorough knowledge of how basic counts work to help you understand elements of Tarzan system anyway.
- There is no and will be no comprehensive guide until sometime well into 2014 at the earliest on this method (with that being questionable also since I am debating as to whether I make the information public or not).

[Distant]

I'm not sure I have what it takes to learn it either but I usually like a challenge and would like to try is all.

Not many today have the counting chops to keep 4 simultaneous running counts. Most people have trouble keeping one simple side count. Some have the chops to learn it quickly but that is rare today. People just aren't as skilled at counting as they used to be. Too many think more than a main count or a minimal number of indices is too much work like they think the casino will just hand them money and they don't need every advantage they can get.