Machine vs Hand Shuffle

[moses]

Delete

[muckz]

If you are ace sequencing/tracking hand shuffle is higher EV, if not, machine is higher EV.

[Blitzkrieg]

No. I always prefer a good hand shuffle vs. a machine shuffle any day of the week but I have grown accustomed to seeing the machine shuffle. The machines IMO have been introduced as a countermeasure to negate sequencing/tracking. The house can't even trust their own BJ dealers and I see them as a countermeasure for rouge dealers possibly trying to stack a deck for their buddies. The next time I go to the tables I am going to ask the dealer to give me a hand shuffle. Hopefully it's a hot dealer, I'm going to tell her that I want to see her work them cards baby!

[bigplayer]

The machines IMO have been introduced as a countermeasure to negate sequencing/tracking.

That is a side benefit to machines, but shuffle machines were really introduced to increase hands per hour dealt by the casino.

[Blitzkrieg]

Good point BP, they help speed the game up in 6 to 8 decks for sure.

[steveistheman84]

machine shuffles are fine by me. one thing that i find useful in hand shuffling pitch games though, is that sometimes you get careless dealers who riff them high so you can see the bottoms as they fall into place. i just watch for a clump of big or small cards and cut accordingly.

[Three]

is that sometimes you get careless dealers who riff them high so you can see the bottoms as they fall into place. i just watch for a clump of big or small cards and cut accordingly.

I have found dealers that don't protect the shuffle at all. You can see the paint go by as they shuffle. If the shuffle looked like a lot of paint you knew that section was very face card rich. The face card poor parts you wouldn't notice hardly any paint. You needed multiple face cards going by in short order to even see paint. It was hard to quantify but I would cut them to the top or note where they ended up if someone else cut. Then you bet big into the clump or clumps. One time I had to take a break when the huge clump of face cards wound up behind the cut card. I was told I missed the shoe from h*ll.

[Blitzkrieg]

I have found dealers that don't protect the shuffle at all. You can see the paint go by as they shuffle.

I wish I found a BJ dealer that didn't protect the shuffle very well but then again considering my skill level I don't think I would be able to properly exploit such an opportunity in BJ. Poker is a different story, I will destroy many players in the field if the deck is not getting properly protected in that game. Funny that this thread came up because I was actually working on the mechanics of the poker deal/BJ deal last night. I'm close to perfecting it to where no one gets the luxury of seeing any cards against my deal.

[bjarg]

The only way a machine (ASM of course) will affect your game is if you are tracking or sequencing (or using any sort of technique variation to exploit a given hand shuffle).
If you are straight counting, machines will be better for you since will speed up the game and will get you more rounds per hour.
What you say about less double downs, less splits, and all that stuff is just nonsense (no offense).

[Blitzkrieg]

Considering your only seeing about half the deck or 5 rounds before the shuffle maybe not.

[Nyne]

The reason most high stakes players demand anything is mostly superstition. Voodoo nonsense. In some cases, knowledgeable players will demand better rules, but how the cards are shuffled really doesn't mean anything unless you are an AP who is attacking the shuffle. If you are tracking, it matters. If you are sequencing, it matters. If you are spotting cards during the shuffle procedure, it matters. If you are just counting, the only difference it makes is in game speed, and a counter should want whatever maximizes game speed, which in this case is the machine shuffle, all else being equal.

[Nyne]

Tracking means shuffle tracking. I think you are saying you side count aces and 8s, which is not affected by the shuffle method. I did say that, all else being equal, a straight card counter should prefer the machine shuffle, but you may be right on in observing that all things aren't necessarily equal. One major reason better pen is usually better for casinos is that less time spent shuffling means more hands per hour dealt. I don't have any experience with single deck, but I wouldn't find it surprising if you told me the pen is better on hand shuffled games. If that's the case, the better pen with a hand shuffle is probably worth more than a higher game speed with a machine shuffle.