Against an Ace, what is the logic...

**ZeeBabar** · 02-09-2014, 06:32 AM

When there is a negative TC (hiLo) and the dealer has an Ace showing, at what number do you stand? The dealer has checked and he has no Ten, given the negative count (he may have 2-6), do you hit your 16? I do not know the index for negative counts.

What about if the TC is positive, say +3, and you have 15, knowing the dealer does not have a BJ, do you hit or hope he has 2-6 and not 7-9?

i know I am being lazy and on the GC pages, they would really blast anyone for not checking BJ3 or other resource but you guys seem kinder.

**DSchles** · 02-09-2014, 11:25 AM

Hi-Lo standing index for 16 v. Ace is +8. Why are you mentioning negative indices? You rarely stand on 16 v. Ace. Is it possible that you meant the dealer has a ten?

Index for 15 v. Ace is +10. Not worth knowing.

Don

**ZeeBabar** · 02-09-2014, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by DSchles

Hi-Lo standing index for 16 v. Ace is +8. Why are you mentioning negative indices? You rarely stand on 16 v. Ace. Is it possible that you meant the dealer has a ten?

Index for 15 v. Ace is +10. Not worth knowing.

Don

So you always hit 15 or 16 against an Ace. sometimes, when you know there are an excess of 10 cards and the dealer does not have a Ten behind the Ace and you are sitting with a 16, I wondered if hitting and busting my hand was better than to hope the dealer has 2-5 and not 7-9. My logic must be weak. Thanks!

On another note, if you see the bottom card before cutting and the card is a 7-8-9. Is it better to cut tat card off?

**Three** · 02-09-2014, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

I wondered if hitting and busting my hand was better than to hope the dealer has 2-5 and not 7-9

I hit because I know the chances of me improving my hand are better than the chances the dealer will bust. At a specific ten rich deck composition I stand. I don't worry about what the dealer's down card is. You are playing the percentages because in the long run your results fall in line with the odds. It doesn't matter what will happen this time. Just trust the math.

**Smartpart** · 02-09-2014, 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tthree

It doesn't matter what will happen this time. Just trust the math.

This. The logic is if you go through the possible down cards and play the hands out(or sim), the math says you will end up with more money by hitting.

**Smartpart** · 02-09-2014, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

On another note, if you see the bottom card before cutting and the card is a 7-8-9. Is it better to cut tat card off?

Feeding you answers never usually accomplishes anything so I'll share some info and let you think about what to do about that 7,8,9.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/7/
http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/14/

**21forme** · 02-09-2014, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

My logic must be weak.

Logic dictates you should buy a book, such as BJA3 or PBJ, and read it, rather than riddle another forum with your endless moronic questions.

**ZenKinG** · 02-09-2014, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

When there is a negative TC (hiLo) and the dealer has an Ace showing, at what number do you stand? The dealer has checked and he has no Ten, given the negative count (he may have 2-6), do you hit your 16? I do not know the index for negative counts.

What about if the TC is positive, say +3, and you have 15, knowing the dealer does not have a BJ, do you hit or hope he has 2-6 and not 7-9?

i know I am being lazy and on the GC pages, they would really blast anyone for not checking BJ3 or other resource but you guys seem kinder.

Go to PA and start playing better games and you won't have to think about whether you should hit or stand, because you will be surrendering these below average hands and save you way more money than hitting/standing with 15s and 16s

**Shark** · 02-10-2014, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

Logic dictates you should buy a book, such as BJA3 or PBJ, and read it, rather than riddle another forum with your endless moronic questions.

Buying another copy of those books won't do any good. He should reread the copies that he already owns.

**ZeeBabar** · 02-10-2014, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by 21forme

Logic dictates you should buy a book, such as BJA3 or PBJ, and read it, rather than riddle another forum with your endless moronic questions.

Love it when I find guys who are regular readers of mine, guys who think they "own" a forum with hidden anger issues, guys who know they do not like a person yet feel compelled to read the posting and then sit down and write a silly line (must feel like masturbation) thinking they can insult someone.

If you cannot provide an answer that other lurkers on this list may benefit from, why bother?

**bjarg** · 02-10-2014, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by ZeeBabar

If you cannot provide an answer that other lurkers on this list may benefit from, why bother?

Well, for one, because its funny as hell, and second, I believe he speaks for a lot of people here so maybe it's time you started wondering why it is your posts and threads do nothing but tick everybody off.

I myself hope they keep coming since I really enjoy laughing my ass off at responses like 21forme's.

RS · 02-10-2014, 08:29 AM

I believe the indices (for H17 [dealer hits soft 17] games) for 16vA and 15vA is +3 and +5 respectively.

Either:
1] Dealer has 7, 8, or 9 in the hole. OR
2] Dealer has 2-6 in the hole. He still has 2 chances to complete a hand before busting.

http://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/appendix/2a/

I looked at 6-deck H17, and for the Ace:
17 total- 8.2%
18,19,20- ~ 20%
21- 9.5%
BUST- 20%

If you're playing an S17 game, the figures are even worse (for the player who stands 16vA).

If the chart above was also posted based on true-count (ie: one chart for TC=-3, another for -2, another or -1....etc.), I would wager that the bust rate decreases and total 17-21 increases at a very quick rate. I'm sure the type of charts I'm talking about have been posted somewhere (Norm?), but am too lazy to search right now.

All I know is, hit if you're below the index and stay if you've reached or exceeded the index for a particular play. If you just "guess" and hope the dealer has a 2-6 in the hole, stay, and by chance win the hand -- that is a very dangerous thing, as you have now created a "ploppy precedent" in your mind that "this play works"...but in reality, it doesn't, because the math says it doesn't. Do what you know, not what you think might be correct.

On the other hand, if you have next-card information or hole-card information, that is an entirely different subject.....

**muffdiver** · 02-10-2014, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by bjarg

Well, for one, because its funny as hell, and second, I believe he speaks for a lot of people here so maybe it's time you started wondering why it is your posts and threads do nothing but tick everybody off.

I myself hope they keep coming since I really enjoy laughing my ass off at responses like 21forme's.

Zee is used as a whipping post at Wong's site too. It disturbs me a little and somehow I get the feeling that most of the "whippers" stand about 5' 4'' and weigh 99 lbs. The keyboard gives balls to all.