Friendly Card Counting Dealer

[houyi]

Hi all,

I just got back from a casino where something rather unexpected happened. I had been backcounting for some time while pretending to watch TV at the nearby sports bar. A high count developed and I wonged in, bet big, and won the first hand. The dealer smiled and passed me my winnings, saying something to the effect of, "I like your style. A count of +14, I knew you would be coming in strong." I was a bit taken aback from this--at this particular shop, most dealers never mention anything about counting, and if they do, they tend to have some sort of grave misconception about it, thinking that someone who counts can predict every card that comes out. At any rate, I just chuckled a bit and said, "Man, if I could count, trust me, I wouldn't be working 80 hours a week at my ****ty job." I then tried to steer the conversation with the dealer and the drunk players next to me to the sports game that was on.

The count remained high, and I thought that the way I handled it put him off the scent, but a few hands later he has an Ace showing. I put up my insurance, and he nods, saying, "Good call, count's way higher than plus 3 now." He doesn't have it, but I have an eleven. He then says, "It's ok, you're bound to get this double down." I do, and all I can do is smile and high-five the drunks next to me, pretending that I just got lucky. Anyway, the count drops dramatically the next few hands, so I say that I need to meet my buddy at the poker tables and I wong out. The dealer winks at me at me as I collect my chips and get the hell out of dodge.

My questions:
1) Do you think I handled this correctly? I really didn't know how to respond in this situation other than to joke around. If I tried to claim to not know what he was talking about completely "i.e. What do you mean, what's counting?", I feel like it wouldn't be credible, as card counting has been in the media for awhile now.
2) The dealer really did seem like a friendly enough guy. I don't think he was trying to intimidate me or extort tips, but I wasn't about to out myself. Do you think he was trying to get a read on me, or was he just a dealer who happened to know how to count? Have you guys ever met a dealer like this?
3) From what I just described, do you think I should avoid the shop for awhile? I didn't catch any heat from the bosses, no suits confronted me or anything like that, and like I said, I don't think he would rat me out or something. Am I just being paranoid?

Any advice is welcome.

[ahjooma]

I don't have advice since I think I am pretty obvious and the only reason they leave me alone is I am
not that good and I don't bet much. But I feel like I can spot card counters.
i played in a place tonight where in a two deck game, count dropped to TC -6 and all of a sudden,
4 of the 6 people at the table had to go pee at the same time. Lol.

[duanedibley]

Yes you handled it correctly. You never want to admit to a dealer that you are an AP, no matter how friendly they seem. Nothing good can ever come of it. Even if they seem too nice to rat you out maliciously, they could still get you in trouble by having a big mouth.

[duanedibley]

I don't have advice since I think I am pretty obvious and the only reason they leave me alone is I am
not that good and I don't bet much. But I feel like I can spot card counters.
i played in a place tonight where in a two deck game, count dropped to TC -6 and all of a sudden,
4 of the 6 people at the table had to go pee at the same time. Lol.

I sat down at a table once with two counters I had never seen before. The count went high quickly and the dealer showed an Ace on one hand. All of us had stiff hands, and we all insta-bet insurance. When the dealer checked and got the green light we all slammed the table with our fists out of anger in unison. I don't know if the other two guys knew each other, but it would have been funny if they didn't.

[RS]

It takes decent skill to be able to deal blackjack AND count at the same time...not to mention, converse with players. Who knows, he could be a friendly dealer that can count [and likely well]. Or maybe he's a scummy dealer that's trying to out you to his bosses. Do you know if that dealer is dual-rate?

If they mention something about counting [in your situation], you can reference the cards you have or how much you bought in for. ie: "No I had a blackjack not a 14." If he said the count was +8 or whatever, you could'a said, "No I should be in for $500 right now...not $800".

[biggg]

LOL why bother. Never say straight up you are counting but you are hosed at this point. This is where having a read can pay off. You either need to leave at the end of the shoe if it's one of those types that are loyal to the casino, or more commonly, pretty much admit to what you are doing (while NEVER saying you were counting or using related terms) and talk to the dealer about the game.

Most dealers who make a comment like that are not going to rat you out and in fact are probably friendly/on your side. You need to be subtle but this can be a great way to learn a ton about the casino's views on counting and tolerance levels. I have obtained incredibly valuable info (as valuable as it can get for straight counting) this way.

[Three]

I know you are a Mr Perfect style player but I would have switched to White Rabbit for the next shoe. First you deflect the count comment as suggested by switch the number reference to something to do with your chips or the game. I like, No, I am more like down $1400. This guy could be an ally or an enemy. It is worth it to find out which. Put a tip out at the shuffle. See how the cut is. That should tell you if there is an advantage here.

[Ouchez]

I predict you will soon be banned from that property. The joys of wonging,,,so,,so, obvious,,and so hated by the casino.

Ouchez

[KJ]

I have had similar situations occur a number of times. I read in one of the older, somewhat outdated books, that at one time, many of the dealers and pithere in Vegas, were either current or former card counters that had moved to Vegas to count cards and when things didn't go as planned they ended up on the other side of the table. Probably still some of that going on, although I suspect much less. And certainly less so in other areas. Many of the dealers that I encounter, especially at the local type casinos are just 'working joes', family type guys, putting in their hours just like any other worker.

I see 3 scenarios to the dealer, basically 'informing' you he is a counter and two are bad and the third, while could be beneficial has the potential to be harmful. The two bad: The dealer could be just using the 'friendly act' to confirm and get all the info he can. He will rat you out when his shift ends. Two, he is a little less a company guy and and is just using this "I know what's going on" approach to try to get extra tip money from you. If you don't comply, he will not be happy and will revert to ratting you out, even if that wasn't his main intent.

And 3, is along the lines of what T3 said, you could use this opportunity to tip him a little and see if you are rewarded by favorable conditions, mainly penetration. I am not a fan of this as in my mind it basically borders on the beginnings of collusion, but my personal comfort level aside, the danger is that you then play longer than you otherwise would, exposing yourself, when you otherwise wouldn't. So, I would just finish out my 'hot' shoe and move along at the shuffle as I ordinarily would. The exception would be if I was playing a game not in my regular rotation, maybe on the road, in which case I would probably press the situation.

[Blitzkrieg]

It seems like you handled the situation as best as you could. However you are wrong for thinking that the dealer did not have a read on you. He knew exactly what you were doing! You did not fool him. The dealer even called you out on it so your cover was blown to a degree before you even got in the game, but with a quick witted comeback you may have covered up your true intentions.
It takes some talent to be able to deal, count up the cards, and carry on a conversation as Rolling Stoned mentioned. That takes a lot of practice and skill, considering this guy is a professional dealer and has dealt 1000's upon 1000's of BJ hands... somewhere along the way he is going to pick up the art of counting if he is serious enough. It seems like this dealer has put in some work and I would not trust him. I would not be surprised if a lot of BJ dealers get together in their off time to practice card counting, only to work houses other than their own. Your on one side of the line and he is on the other side. He may be a sweetheart but don't get complacent no matter how friendly this guy is. T3 gave some good advice on how to gauge his friendliness by putting out a toke for the dealer before he cuts the cards to see what type of penetration he is going to give you.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

When you are outed there is a high chance that the dealer, bucking for a promotion, rats you out.

In any case, you are best off being silent, dropping a toke, and never playing against that dealer again.

[Coyote]

I tend to disagree with most in this thread. You should have not said much at all; played a few hands incorrectly and got the hell out of there. Longevity is VERY important! I'd be surprised if a tap on the shoulder doesn't come soon.

[joeb21]

Comments about counting from other players and dealers will always come up. I usually change the subject or play dumb. I got great advice from a friend to never admit anything and always leave doubt. Where I play a lot of dealers also work in the pit so you never know who your dealing with so best to be cordial and move on.