Smart or Smartass?

[Blitzkrieg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

I seen this video and had to post it. First of all I want to say Colin (not to be confused with a body part) seems to admit that he is CC, poor camouflage in his betting, and who is his buddy video taping this experience and showing his face for the eye in the sky. He is also playing a shoed game, wouldn't people think he could find a better game with better odds considering how much he is spreading? Wouldn't it be better to find a 1 or 2 decker?

[ZenMaster_Flash]

An obvious poseur ~ and no more than that.

[Three]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

I seen this video and had to post it. First of all I want to say Colin (not to be confused with a body part) seems to admit that he is CC, poor camouflage in his betting, and who is his buddy video taping this experience and showing his face for the eye in the sky. He is also playing a shoed game, wouldn't people think he could find a better game with better odds considering how much he is spreading? Wouldn't it be better to find a 1 or 2 decker?

He went in and tried to make sure he got backed off to get it on film. That is why his spread is so large and no cover was used. His goal going in was to get a backoff on film not win some money.

[houyi]

To be fair, I think he was looking to get backed off just for the purposes of showing what one looks like. He was part of a $1.5 million bankrolled team; I highly doubt that he would be so amateurish when he has his "game-face" on. It seems likely he just went to some toilet in the middle of nowhere to show what a backoff looks like for the purposes of marketing his website/blackjack tutoring scheme.

This being said, I did watch the documentary his team starred in, Holy Rollers. It was quite entertaining, but the entire operation did seem very pell mell, flamboyant, and nonoptimal, so who's to say?

My question is: if the team was so well-funded and successful, why are they pulling this snake-oil BJ apprenticeship scheme? From what I've seen of their website, they are charging exorbitant fees for things anyone with internet access and a computer could discover for free. Do people really buy into these things, and if so, how profitable can they be?

[bjarg]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=6HjwzJyCQlQ

I seen this video and had to post it. First of all I want to say Colin (not to be confused with a body part) seems to admit that he is CC, poor camouflage in his betting, and who is his buddy video taping this experience and showing his face for the eye in the sky. He is also playing a shoed game, wouldn't people think he could find a better game with better odds considering how much he is spreading? Wouldn't it be better to find a 1 or 2 decker?

Did you not understand he was doing that on purpose to show on tape what a back off looks like?

[bjarg]

This being said, I did watch the documentary his team starred in, Holy Rollers. It was quite entertaining, but the entire operation did seem very pell mell, flamboyant, and nonoptimal, so who's to say?

My question is: if the team was so well-funded and successful, why are they pulling this snake-oil BJ apprenticeship scheme? From what I've seen of their website, they are charging exorbitant fees for things anyone with internet access and a computer could discover for free. Do people really buy into these things, and if so, how profitable can they be?

The key word is vanity. They want to be rock stars. They want everybody to publicly know them as the world greatest card counters. I dont think very highly of any of them and I know for a fact that I am not the only one with serious doubts about their team success.

Any holly rollers in the house?

[Blitzkrieg]

Did you not understand he was doing that on purpose to show on tape what a back off looks like?

I know he was just doing it to show what a back-off looks like but I don't think it was a good idea on his part. I'm sure he has studied the game to some degree but that stunt is taking it a little to far.

[Jabberwocky]

Over the years I have witnessed scores of these holy rollers being hit with backoffs. Each time it has been a hilarious spectacle. They spread as if they are playing blackjack inside a vacuum or that the casino is their employer. Funnier than the Keystone Cops and Archie Bunker combined.

[Smartpart]

I go by either. In this case probably the latter.

[Goatlife]

bottom line is they took around 1.4 million dollars out of casino's pockets into theirs. Doesn't matter how it was done, its done and they have the money to do other things in life if they so choose. How many here have taken 100k out of a casino?

I actually think that site is decent for training new people. I never told many people this but they are actually part of the reason i started. I was sitting on my couch watching this documentary and said "wow maybe i should give card counting a try". I didn't go threw there site to learn (but i did become a member recently) but i search almost every forum for AP related material every day im not playing to try to learn new things or find places to play. You never know where you going to learn from. I signed up for there site and i have already found some good info that will be able to generate at least 100x in EV what i paid for it. Not pumping them or anything but they actually took a million dollars from casions. HOw many here can say that? I know i can't yet

[AussiePlayer]

Any holly rollers in the house?

Colin and Ben both post here, yes.

[houyi]

bottom line is they took around 1.4 million dollars out of casino's pockets into theirs. Doesn't matter how it was done, its done and they have the money to do other things in life if they so choose. How many here have taken 100k out of a casino?

I actually think that site is decent for training new people. I never told many people this but they are actually part of the reason i started. I was sitting on my couch watching this documentary and said "wow maybe i should give card counting a try". I didn't go threw there site to learn (but i did become a member recently) but i search almost every forum for AP related material every day im not playing to try to learn new things or find places to play. You never know where you going to learn from. I signed up for there site and i have already found some good info that will be able to generate at least 100x in EV what i paid for it. Not pumping them or anything but they actually took a million dollars from casions. HOw many here can say that? I know i can't yet

I hear what you're saying, man, insofar as I can relate to what you're saying. Right after I watched the Kevin Spacey movie, 21, I investigated online and soon thereafter bought Professional Blackjack, my first blackjack book. I can imagine watching their documentary was an even more powerful experience for you because it was actually real (also it was the better film, funnily enough).

This being said, and maybe I'm mistaken because I haven't actually purchased any of their products, don't you view what they're doing as slightly sketchy? They're charging hundreds of dollars for bankroll consultation, for instance, when someone could just download a demo of CVCX for free. And then they're charging thousands of dollars for a "blackjack bootcamp?" Card counting isn't all that difficult to learn; I really don't see how they can be providing a fair service for the amount they are asking. Again, maybe I'm mistaken, and they've got some super-secret technique that is included in their training that makes their fee a fair one, but if that's so, why wasn't their team astronomically more profitable? If I recall correctly, they were looking at around a 33% annual return, which doesn't seem all that exceptional, though I grant such a large bank will typically mean a slower return. Even so, I am somewhat suspicious of their motivation for this venture, as they are clearly trying to make a profit-motivated business out of it, but they are effectively dooming their ability to card count in the process, so how profitable must this venture be if they really were performing exceedingly well?

[Dtb239]

I enjoyed their documentary and was inspired by the faith part of it and wanting to take money from evil casinos, which most can all agree they are evil. As far as blackjack apprenticeship goes, they found a way to make money off teaching people how to play or more so learn how to start playing. If your still intrigued after heading a bad variance, you take it upon yourself to read and develop skills more. It's called capitalism you find a need and you provide a service. They wouldn't be charging that kind of money if the market wouldn't pay those prices. I'm sure their boot camps are used to scout players to teams.

One issue I have is networking, I'm finally starting to network a little on this site, but have yet to connect and network with people in my area, I hope one day a BP sees my playing and wants to involve me in a team or I come across a partner. The Church team did an excellent job at networking training and by finding investors 1.5 million is an awesome accomplishment by any standards. I don't think they had longevity in mind rather to hit it as hard and as fast as possible, that's why their team grew to so many players so they could cycle through the, with back offs. I wonder what their spread was does anybody know? Was it something crazy 1-20????