Practical Advice for Single/Double Deck Games?

[houyi]

Hi all,

I may be in the West for a few weeks, and I've only ever played 6 or 8 deck shoes during my time counting. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure how pitch games even work (from what I understand, your cards are dealt face down, so how do you signal when you bust or get a BJ?). I typically use Wong Halves or Hi Lo, and from what I understand, neither of these are optimal for single or double deck games. I may end up just playing shoes if I have the opportunity, but I think this would be good experience for me to at least get a feel for lower deck games. Any advice, from what exactly to expect in the differences between shoe games and pitch games to just how much of a disadvantage I would be using one of my standard counts vs. a more optimal count, would be greatly appreciated.

[redbuck]

Concerning DD - the dealers will help you.
Just pick 'em up (one hand), scratch the cards on the table to hit, tuck if good, flip over a bust or BJ. Even if you never take insurance, if the dealer has an ace up and offers it, take the opportunity to look at you second hand (if playing two).
Good luck...

[mofungoo]

You will get a greater frequency of + counts with pitch games compared to shoe games. With single deck you will have an advantage 1/4 of the time or more, depending on the house advantage for that game. Volatility is greater with single deck; you could, for example, make your bet at the start of the round when the deck was favorable and have the count go negative by the time it is your turn to play the hand. For that reason it is important to learn more negative index numbers than for shoe games.

It is really important to make sure the game you are playing pays 3:2 for blackjack. Many single and double deck games pay 6:5 for blackjack and that would make that game not worth playing.

Pitch games are watched more closely than shoe games so it is easier to get backed off. Use no more than a 1-4 spread on single deck and no more than 1-8 for double deck and don't look as though you are looking intently at the cards as they are exposed during play.

Nearly all pitch games are dealt face down. Count the cards in the following manner - count the dealer's upcard first, then your first two cards. Then count the other players' hit cards and down cards if they bust, then your hit cards, if any, then the dealer's hit cards, if any. Finally count the other players' down cards as they are exposed.

Use the count you are used to using except to add more negative counts for hit/stand and more plus counts for doubling, from -3 to +3. Play basic strategy for pair splits and don't split tens even if the count says to do so because that play will draw heat very quickly in pitch.

Have fun and good luck.

[bigplayer]

Halves is good, most important is you have to learn a wider range of indexes (like +8 to -8) because you cannot easily wong out of all negative counts like you can in shoes. Regarding betting the good pen games you have to be a much more clever fellow with your betting if you're gonna camp out.

[JohnnyUtah]

I don't play SD/DD very often (the min bets in my area are very high relative to BR), but one thing I'll add is that the rules tend to be a little stricter. Generally you can only double down on 10 or 11... no 9's or soft A-X hands (other than A9). Usually the Min/Max bet sign will have specific table rules stated there.

Another thing I sometimes consider, though an inexact science and not to change your actual count, is if there are smart players who know what they are doing, you can sometimes guess what down cards they have. I don't know if anyone else does this (there may be entire chapters on it, but I have no idea) but while playing SD/DD I keep a "guess count" per hand until cards are exposed. 1) Barring an Ace, if a player hits, draws a 10, and hits again... I have them on 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, 2-4. 2) If we're facing a 4/5/6 and they hit, again barring an Ace, they have 1 or 2 cards 2-6. 3) If we're facing a 7 through Ace and they stand, I have them on 1 or 2 cards 10-A. In scenarios 1 & 2, if my running count is X, my "guess count" is "X, possibly 1-2 higher." Scenario 3, "X, possibly 1-2 lower." If there is an Ace, usually it would be paired with a 2-6 card in these scenarios, and the count would still be X (ie, 0 net change in count), hence the "X, but possibly..."

Again, I barely play any SD/DD so experts please don't rip me. Ha.


EDIT: Scenario 3, only 8-9 would be a stand and 9-9 varies (which I can eliminate in certain split hands leaving just 8-9 as the only hand that wouldn't result in a -1 or -2). More often than not it's 10 with 7-9 for -1, A with 7-9 for -1, or 10-10 for -2.

[houyi]

I don't play SD/DD very often (the min bets in my area are very high relative to BR), but one thing I'll add is that the rules tend to be a little stricter. Generally you can only double down on 10 or 11... no 9's or soft A-X hands (other than A9). Usually the Min/Max bet sign will have specific table rules stated there.

Another thing I sometimes consider, though an inexact science and not to change your actual count, is if there are smart players who know what they are doing, you can sometimes guess what down cards they have. I don't know if anyone else does this (there may be entire chapters on it, but I have no idea) but while playing SD/DD I keep a "guess count" per hand until cards are exposed. 1) Barring an Ace, if a player hits, draws a 10, and hits again... I have them on 2-2, 2-3, 3-3, 2-4. 2) If we're facing a 4/5/6 and they hit, again barring an Ace, they have 1 or 2 cards 2-6. 3) If we're facing a 7 through Ace and they stand, I have them on 1 or 2 cards 10-A. In scenarios 1 & 2, if my running count is X, my "guess count" is "X, possibly 1-2 higher." Scenario 3, "X, possibly 1-2 lower." If there is an Ace, usually it would be paired with a 2-6 card in these scenarios, and the count would still be X (ie, 0 net change in count), hence the "X, but possibly..."

Again, I barely play any SD/DD so experts please don't rip me. Ha.

This is an interesting point. Does anyone ever try to inquire as to what other people at the table have in order to get a better idea of the count? Would it look out of place to do something like shake your head and say to the player next to you, "Damn, another 16, how are you holding up, man?" Would this sort of thing be discouraged by the casino?

[JohnnyUtah]

This is an interesting point. Does anyone ever try to inquire as to what other people at the table have in order to get a better idea of the count? Would it look out of place to do something like shake your head and say to the player next to you, "Damn, another 16, how are you holding up, man?" Would this sort of thing be discouraged by the casino?

If you play with others, you rarely see people look at their cards like poker players do (close to the felt so no one else can see). Generally they pick them up, look, and make a decision while still holding the cards upright. You can usually glance over at the players next to you and sometimes players say things like "2-3 again... I like my 10's... I have soft XX, can I double?" etc. It may not be great to do that stuff around a pit boss but in my experience, other players and the dealers don't mind too much.

[AussiePlayer]

Another thing I sometimes consider, though an inexact science and not to change your actual count, is if there are smart players who know what they are doing, you can sometimes guess what down cards they have. I don't know if anyone else does this (there may be entire chapters on it, but I have no idea)

Maybe http://www.qfit.com/book/ModernBlackjackPage495.htm

[21forme]

If the dealer has an ace up adnd the INS is borderline, I'll ask a player next to me what he has. Otherwise, I don't.

[BigJer]

You will get a greater frequency of + counts with pitch games compared to shoe games. With single deck you will have an advantage 1/4 of the time or more, depending on the house advantage for that game. Volatility is greater with single deck; you could, for example, make your bet at the start of the round when the deck was favorable and have the count go negative by the time it is your turn to play the hand. For that reason it is important to learn more negative index numbers than for shoe games.

It is really important to make sure the game you are playing pays 3:2 for blackjack. Many single and double deck games pay 6:5 for blackjack and that would make that game not worth playing.

Pitch games are watched more closely than shoe games so it is easier to get backed off. Use no more than a 1-4 spread on single deck and no more than 1-8 for double deck and don't look as though you are looking intently at the cards as they are exposed during play.

Nearly all pitch games are dealt face down. Count the cards in the following manner - count the dealer's upcard first, then your first two cards. Then count the other players' hit cards and down cards if they bust, then your hit cards, if any, then the dealer's hit cards, if any. Finally count the other players' down cards as they are exposed.

Use the count you are used to using except to add more negative counts for hit/stand and more plus counts for doubling, from -3 to +3. Play basic strategy for pair splits and don't split tens even if the count says to do so because that play will draw heat very quickly in pitch.

Have fun and good luck.

Also to emphasize this do not try to get a peek at the other player's cards. It adds to your EV minimally and you can very easily get the count wrong if you don't remember not to add those cards to the count later. Colin at BJA did a video on this for the premium members.

[redbuck]

I play regularly with some friends, and it's not uncommon at all for 1st base to say "anybody got any faces I got 2, etc" when the dealer has an ace up. The pit crew is use to it, and couldn't care less. We play in the high limit area (100-200 min). I think people worry way too much about heat...

[VeryGood]

Playing heads up is the only way to play single deck. At least 50% pen. 6 hands is good. Double on 10 and 11 only is still beatable. Spread 1-4, 1-6 is beast. 1-8 you are looking for trouble. Go pee pee in negative counts if other players join in. They don't last playing heads up. Play fast, you can do 118 hands per hour on pitch games.

[bigplayer]

If the dealer has an ace up adnd the INS is borderline, I'll ask a player next to me what he has. Otherwise, I don't.

If Insurance is borderline, if you have a good hand, just do it or insure for less. Not a good idea to think about it too long or try too hard to see other players cards.