Noob question about B.S.

[bcelos]

Ok I think I already know the answer to this but I figured I would give it a shot. Assuming you are playing strict basic strategy on a 6D, dealer stands on all 17, Resplit, Double after split etc game; how would you play this:

Your hand: 8, 8.
Dealer: ?, K.

Now according to BS you're supposed to split the 8's (which is what I did), then I had an 8,10 and an 8,3. Then according to strategy, I doubled on my 8,3 hand and drew something like a 4 giving me a hand of 15 and a hand of 18.

Naturally the dealer drew another 10, giving him a hand of 20 and taking my 3 unit hand.

Now here's my question. If a dealer is showing a 10 is it really that wise to split the 8's. And if you do split the 8's is it worth it to double if you get a hand with 10 or 11.

Thanks.

now I've only been playing blackjack for 3 months, and I know the answer is to do whatever basic strategy tells, but it feels like I would have been better off surrendering the hand of 16 v 10, rather then dumping another 2 units into it, but if there is any other insight on this it would be appreciated.

[Gronbog]

You're falling victim to analyzing things in hindsight. This particular time you lost all 3 bets, but you would not be feeling this way if you had caught a face on your double for an overall win. Unless you're counting and know the deviations for the count or have some other form of information, then never guess -- always follow the basic strategy.

It may make you feel better to know that splitting 8,8 vs K does not make it into a winning hand. It just makes it into less of a losing hand. This is called a defensive split.

[stopgambling]

If you can surrender your 8/8 vs 10 then you surrender ( b.s.), if not then you split.

[DSchles]

NO! That's wrong. 8,8, v. T is NOT surrender BS. BS is to split. Period.

Don

[bjarg]

NO! That's wrong. 8,8, v. T is NOT surrender BS. BS is to split. Period.

Don

Shouldnt you make the distintion between LS and ES games?

[DSchles]

When you split 8,8 v. T in the game whose rules you described, your e.v. is -47.5%. If you stand, you lose 53.7%. If you hit, you lose 53.5%. Naturally, if you surrender, you lose 50%.

Your choice!

Don

[bcelos]

Ok thank you everyone for the reconfirmation. Sounds like I need to stop overthinking.

[steveistheman84]

sorry, i don't know if you count or not. ALWAYS split 88 and AA against everything.

[MavSharp]

Ok thank you everyone for the reconfirmation. Sounds like I need to stop overthinking.

I highly recommend for you to obtain a copy of Don's BJA3 he reveals all the Basic Strategy expected values that can help you better understand why you make certain decisions.

MavSharp

[steveistheman84]

if no surrender, stand it at around +6. there's an index for surrender too, but i don't know it (probably lower than +6 though). maybe around +4?

[seriousplayer]

Ok I think I already know the answer to this but I figured I would give it a shot. Assuming you are playing strict basic strategy on a 6D, dealer stands on all 17, Resplit, Double after split etc game; how would you play this:

Your hand: 8, 8.
Dealer: ?, K.

Now according to BS you're supposed to split the 8's (which is what I did), then I had an 8,10 and an 8,3. Then according to strategy, I doubled on my 8,3 hand and drew something like a 4 giving me a hand of 15 and a hand of 18.

Naturally the dealer drew another 10, giving him a hand of 20 and taking my 3 unit hand.

Now here's my question. If a dealer is showing a 10 is it really that wise to split the 8's. And if you do split the 8's is it worth it to double if you get a hand with 10 or 11.

Thanks.

now I've only been playing blackjack for 3 months, and I know the answer is to do whatever basic strategy tells, but it feels like I would have been better off surrendering the hand of 16 v 10, rather then dumping another 2 units into it, but if there is any other insight on this it would be appreciated.

When you split pair 8s it breaks up your hard total of 16. With a pairs 8s against a dealer's 10 you will lose about $53 for every $100 bet by hitting. The logic in basic strategy for this play is to loss less. From computer analysis it shows that you will lose about $48 for every $100 bet when you split 8s. The sad part is splitting still results in loses from the players point of view. Lets do some math here:

As mention above if you hit 8,8 vs 10 you will lose $53 and for splitting you will lose $47. You subtract $53-$47= $6.

In other words by splitting you just save yourself $9 for every $100 bet. The logic of basic strategy shows that it is better to play two hands starting with 8 than one hand of 16 when the dealers up card is a 10. Remember that sometimes when you split 8,8 vs 10 you will lost both 8s against the dealer's 10. After you are dealt many many pairs of 8s it will result in losing less than standing and hitting. Keep in mind that you will lose a lot of pairs 8s dealt to you when splitting but you will lose more when you hit or stand.

Hope that helps.

[DSchles]

I gave the percentages for the game he's playing. Your numbers are not correct. $43 is way off.

Don

[seriousplayer]

I gave the percentages for the game he's playing. Your numbers are not correct. $43 is way off.

Don

Somehow, I got the e.v to be -47.48% when splitting if double after split is allowed. For standing -53.685% and for hitting -53.536%. I just fixed the numbers on my post.

It is important for me to mention that the EV numbers are for the player's first two cards and the dealer's face-up card.