Scouting in my own backyard - No burn card while changing dealers?

[Blitzkrieg]

While doing a little scouting today I noticed that a dealer did not burn a card when they did their dealer change out mid-game. Besides for that nearly every player there did not even know how to play proper basic strategy for the amount of decks in play. I wonder if the dealer just made an honest mistake or is it house policy for this particular house (not your standard casino). I realize in most casinos when they change out dealers, the incoming dealer burns a card. Has anyone ever seen this as a customary practice in their locale? Other than that it was standard rules seen in most casinos... dealer hits soft 17, DAS, 3:2 on BJ.

[ZenMaster_Flash]

Many properties do NOT burn a card upon changing dealers.

[Blitzkrieg]

I was under the notion that burning a card while changing dealers mid-shoe was the customary practice. It's the way I have always seen it done in the casino. That's why I was surprised today to see that the dealer did not burn a card when they did their dealer change. Hmm.

[bcelos]

I think the burn is more of a dealer tradition as well as a final say for the cameras above as opposed to trying to affect the game / counter cheating players. I've always seen it done but I imagine if varies from house to house at is really doesn't serve much purpose in black jack, at least in my opinion.

[hitthat16]

Funny, I've actually never seen a new dealer burn a card upon entering.

[Blitzkrieg]

Funny, I've actually never seen a new dealer burn a card upon entering.

I am used to seeing it 100% of the time. I suppose it varies though as bcelos mentioned.

But that leads me to my next question... When a player is in a 6D game and there have been 2 dealer changes, how is a counter supposed to "count" the more than likely 2 burn cards, plus the burn card from the start of the shoe? So there are 3 cards not assigned a value and have been spent into play via being burned.

A. Do you assign the burn cards a negative count value to your running count.

B. Do you consider the burn cards as insignificant to formulating TC (dependent on the system used) and look at them as if they were behind the cut card.

I'm sure somewhere there has been a discussion about this.

[hitthat16]

^ Yes, it has been discussed. Treat unseen cards as if they were behind the cut card. It is less penetration.

[Blitzkrieg]

Thanks.

[RS]

True Count (TC) = Cards seen divided by # of unseen decks.

You could walk up to a 6-deck shoe game where an entire deck has already been played. You can imagine that 1 deck that's already been played...imagine that deck to be behind the cut card. Of course, the game now has horrible penetration (instead of, say, 1 deck cut off, it now has 2 decks cut off). You just gotta remember that when you see 3 decks in the discard tray and there are (in reality) 3 decks remaining to be played, you don't divide RC by 3, you divide it by 4 (since you've only seen 2 decks...there's still 3 decks in the shoe and that 1 deck in the discard tray).

[Three]

Several of the stores in my rotation don't burn a card on a dealer change. One of these doesn't burn a card at the start of the shoe either. At a casino that does burn a card on more than one occasion I have seen guys try to get a misdeal when the dealer forgot to burn a card and his cards sucked. The Floor always ruled they didn't have to burn a card. It was a custom not a rule or required procedure.

[bcelos]

But that leads me to my next question... When a player is in a 6D game and there have been 2 dealer changes, how is a counter supposed to "count" the more than likely 2 burn cards, plus the burn card from the start of the shoe? So there are 3 cards not assigned a value and have been spent into play via being burned.

That's interesting because where I play the dealer always shows the burn card, and if you missed it they will tell you what it was if you ask them.

Last night I was playing a 6d game where the shoe had ended and the dealer had shuffled and burned a card, At that time the dealers relief came in and then burned another card directly after. However as is custom where I play both dealers showed the burn card so it wouldn't really affect anything.

[Blitzkrieg]

I don't get that kind of hospitality at the tables. I have seen the dealer expose the burn card on a new shoe starting out before but it has been years since that last happened. I would never think about asking them to expose the burn card. In a game where the house is already skittish and OCD'ing on the players I don't want to make them think something is going on.

[muffdiver]

I don't get that kind of hospitality at the tables. I have seen the dealer expose the burn card on a new shoe starting out before but it has been years since that last happened. I would never think about asking them to expose the burn card. In a game where the house is already skittish and OCD'ing on the players I don't want to make them think something is going on.

I'm in agreement but I will say that I've been known to talk ploppies into asking to see the burn card.