Starting Up

[KJ]

Your post talks about how a level 2 count has a lower variance compare to a level 1 count system. ZenFlash_Master's post is about level one counts are not good enough to get the money. It is two different conversations. In other word you are talk about apples and Zen is talking about oranges. One is using a level one count with more variance doesn't mean that it doesn't get the money. What it means is that one will need to play longer to overcome the higher variance. So what you are saying is since "level one counts when used has a higher variance than level 2 counts" you could not making money using a level one count. Is that what you saying???

However, lower variance is better but it doesn't mean with higher variances you can't generate the same EV. Your post had me reading that with higher variances one can't generate any expected return. It seem like that is what you are trying to say.

You are 100% correct, seriousplayer, two different issues, but the common link is how proponents of higher counts almost always over-value the benefits of higher level counts vs hi-lo, or in Flash's case, completely dismiss hi-lo of having any value.

In another, somewhat related thread, on felt vs hi-lo, DonS, put the increased value at 8%, based on simulations and research in BJA3. I'll accept that number. Personally, this is one place that I feel simulation results don't translate 100% into real world play, but I have no credible way to show otherwise, so I completely accept 8% as a fair figure. But that is not the figure that proponents will use. They will cherry pick, specific conditions and results of simulations that show their positions in the best light, often talking about gains in the neighborhood of 20%. That is what I really hate. And both Flash and T3's posts in this thread are an extention of those exaggerations.

[mofungoo]

One can play a level 2 count with a ramp that yields the same EV as a level 1 count. If that is done the ROR will be much lower. Or one could adjust the ramp such that the two counts are equal in ROR, in which case the level 2 count's EV will be higher. Or a middle of the road approach will result in both lower risk and greater EV. However, no betting ramp can simultaneously maximize risk and EV. Neither will side counts, learning every possible index, prayer, not even human sacrifice can maximize both.

[Three]

I don't know Mo. Human sacrifice has worked pretty good in the past.

Seriously though of all the rebuttal here yours is the most accurate. I was about to post just that.