Had some fun

[Ouchez]

Why in God's name would you continue to ask someone if you could play? Why would you ask even once for that matter? I have found people get more annoyed if you ask them if you can play and they say no and you totally disrespect their wishes and jump in anyway. I'd rather jump in ignore the flack and play stupid and apologize later for not having proper "etiquette". If they persist, which can happen, I just cup my big cauliflower ear lean over and ask them if they could speak up. They either get the hint or are just plain ignorant, but either way I have fun with it. I don't understand getting pissed with getting ignored, it's kind of the whole point of being an AP.

Very pleasant surprise,,,,welcome back

Ouchez

[KJ]

This seems a silly discussion to me, but wtf...I'll weigh in. I wong into games much more the last year or two than I used too, because I am often tracking a second game and I also now have a playing partner, so we do a limited amount of my own variation of call ins. In either one of these situations it makes no sense to go to the trouble to identify a positive 'entrance point', and then not enter. So I never ask. Frankly I am not interested in the answer. It is within the rules of the casino, so I am not required to ask. If someone finds that disrespectful, that's on them. Hey if it was that important to them, they should have requested a private game.

Now, on the flip side if someone asks to join my game, of course I always say yes during neutral and negative counts. I will also say yes during a slightly advantageous count. But if it's a real good count, I will ask them to wait and thank them for asking. They shouldn't have asked. If they are annoyed at me, no matter because I am likely leaving at the next shuffle. Now of course, they have the option of entering anyway, and I wouldn't be offended if they did. I wouldn't like it, because it is costing me EV, but I don't own the game. And BTW, I only remember that scenario occurring one time.

Funny thing, just yesterday, I was playing a shoe game, with one other player, when a lady asked if we minded if she joined. It was two rounds into a six deck game, with five dealt and the count was neutral. I thanked her for asking and told her she was welcome. The other guy asked her to wait. He was just being a jerk. The lady sat there for 15 minutes waiting.

As for getting upset and elevated blood pressure, nothing anyone else at the table does can cause me to get upset. I usually just laugh AT them, sometimes on the inside. I mean really! If you are going to let other players bother you, you probably shouldn't be playing. If you are playing for a living and playing stresses you out...find a less stressful way to support yourself. If you are playing as a hobby...find a hobby that you actually enjoy. Life is just too short.

[Three]

Maybe I was too wordy because it seems a lot of people missed what I was saying. If I am asked I appreciate the courtesy and will answer as suits me and don't really care what people do after I say yes or no. If I ask someone to wait I only want to ask once for obvious heat reasons. By making me ask more than once I expose myself more than I care to. IOf the person says he will enter anyway after being asked once fair enough. It doesn't bother me. What does bother me is people forcing me to ask more than once. It is worth it because many times people don't here you. But if you are an AP you know that making me ask repeatedly draws attention to both of us and the table that need not happen. You should understand this and simply answer no I will not wait rather than drawing heat on both of us. I don't understand why you are so scared to answer a request. I deal with people at the tables all the time and never have a problem with directly stopping a situation from escalating to heat from the pit. If Tbonz is really not a coward why does he not prevent the possible heat by giving a simple and direct answer. It will end there with me and there will be no issues that stem from it. I have never had a problem with saying I have to leave soon so I can't wait when I wong in as the rare unsought occasion presents itself. If you can't control a table you are lacking a key AP skill.

[Ouchez]

If Tbonz is really not a coward why does he not prevent the possible heat by giving a simple and direct answer. It will end there with me and there will be no issues that stem from it. I have never had a problem with saying I have to leave soon so I can't wait when I wong in as the rare unsought occasion presents itself. If you can't control a table you are lacking a key AP skill.

Really funny,,,Tthree, Tbonz is no coward, believe me,,,if he came to your table and was to wong in, with one look at him you may ask once that he holds off, and you would do that very politely, trust me,,and if he then jumped in, you would sit there like a church mouse looking at my 19 pound killer cat. Now, if the roles were reversed, and you asked him if you could jump in, and he said no, promise again, it would end there, trust me.

I can get very rough at the table, but I know when to sit and shut up, like when I am playing in Detroit, and a 6'5 275 pound Bro' is at my table, with hands so big he could squash my head,,,best believe I am not going to anger that guy. We all need to know where to draw the line.

Ouchez

[muffdiver]

I didn't feel a need to mention this but the jerk I was dealing with was both much younger and bigger than me but considering the circumstance and environment I didn't even factor that in as there was no talk of physicality by anyone.

[Three]

Now, if the roles were reversed, and you asked him if you could jump in, and he said no, promise again, it would end there, trust me.

I respect a no or even a look in my eye as you put your bet out to acknowledge you heard me. It is about not drawing attention with unnecessary second requests. I don't get upset if someone exercises their right to join the table midshoe. I just don't want to be made to ask again as repeated requests can draw heat for everyone. All I need is to be certain you heard my initial request and you can do as you will. There is a delicate art of not taking things to far and understanding what course will get the best results. The sheepish guy that won't answer or look at me causes the unnecessary second and even third request because you aren't sure they heard you.

Incidentally I wasn't calling Tbonz a coward. I was only pointing out some acknowledgement is to both our benefit when it comes to not drawing heat. T bonz should understand that and at least give some eye contact when he puts his bet out if he chooses to not reply verbally so no more requests are made.

If there is only one or two people I can take care of myself but I certainly don't seek out confrontation. Because of this I may seem a little fearless but the toughs can read your size, strength and attitude and usually know better than to mess with me. It is like a dog "smelling" fear (I think it is a mental thing not olfactory. The dogs are either reading body language or your mental state). If you don't have the right attitude you look like an easy target.

[KJ]

I just don't want to be made to ask again as repeated requests can draw heat for everyone. All I need is to be certain you heard my initial request and you can do as you will. The sheepish guy that won't answer or look at me causes the unnecessary second and even third request because you aren't sure they heard you.

Simple solution T3. Don't ask in the first place. Why ask a question that you won't like the answer to. There was a quote from the Travolta movie 'civil action' that applies, "don't ask a question that you don't know how it will be answered". (I didn't look it up, so it may not be the exact quote, but it is close).

Again, you are not required to ask permission. What's next? If I sit down at a video poker machine am I supposed to ask the person seated next to me if they mind if I play? When I sit down at a resturant, should I ask the patrons at the next table if I this Ok?

For what it's worth....they heard you! A non answer is a no. But don't even get to that point.

[Tbonz]

I understand you are not calling me a coward, but to be honest I have no feeling about it either way. Same as I do not care one bit about anyone's insecurities about being disrespected at the table. I have played as an AP for many years now and it has been my experience that a patron will get much more insulted or feel "disrespected" should I ask to jump in and when they say no I still do it anyway. That leads to far more attention in most cases. As I stated before, it is far better to just jump in and apologize for lack of etiquette should somebody keep wining about it, than blatantly in their face "disrespecting" them by pretending you care what their response to your jumping in will be as you are going to do what you want anyway. There is nothing sheepish about approaching a table and playing it if and how you wish. I have no regard for the strangers that sit at the table I need to do business at. But I also know what works best, I've been doing this a long time. It's not about respect, that word gets thrown around too loosely and frankly those that beg for it rarely get or deserve it. I do not choose to intimidate nor show disrespect, I just choose to play. And all the whining in the world when I step up to will not change it. Believe me, if I choose to jump in to play at your table, when I put my chips down and get dealt my cards, you've got your answer. Anything past that is stating the obvious and need not be addressed. If you need to ask if I heard you more than once after I start playing, well than your insecurity is shining through, who cares? I sure don't. And be careful about badgering players trying to play, the pit may just not like you.

And on a side note, the next time I jump into play and somebody thinks I don't acknowledge them because I'm afraid, well that will be the first time. Regardless of how I look its more about confidence and self assurance that allows me to just go about my business without too much hassle at the table. You don't have to be a tough guy to be a confident one, and BJ is not a contact sport the last time I checked, so the less banter with those that need to feel important at the table the better.

[Jabberwocky]

Why do u need several paragraphs to say "screw you"?

[muffdiver]

KJ's right. There's no reason to ask anybody anything. Screw the etiquette. You're there to make money, not friends.

[Three]

I am amazed that people still don't seem to understand I am asking someone to wait when they are joining the table. I have explained this each time and people still seem to think I am asking to join a table. I only do that if I want to wait anyway.

[Three]

If you need to ask if I heard you more than once after I start playing, well than your insecurity is shining through, who cares? I sure don't. And be careful about badgering players trying to play, the pit may just not like you.

I only request you wait before you start playing. you probably already have chips and wait until the last minute to bet so I would only get the chance to ask once if I got no reply. The pit loves me. I have had a couple dealers cop an attitude but that is it. They were the ones that made a mistake and act like I was shot taking to cover their arse. The Floor any place I am a regular unfortunately seem to rely on me to mediate the temperament of the table, confirm disputes and even consult on regulations. I wish they didn't see me as this guy that knows the game and pays attention and gets rid of the troublemakers in a cerebral and peaceful way but somehow if I come back enough times that is the reputation I get. They seem to know I understand what their responsibilities are and how a casino operates and aid in making everyones job easier and more enjoyable. In retrospect it might have been smarter to be invisible but when the tap is looming I get the subtle signal to leave rather than the backoff so that I can be welcomed back later. I think it might have been smarter to be Mr Nobody but what I am doing has worked for a long time in some real sweat shops without getting the tap. I wouldn't recommend anyone else try it. I am not really sure how I pulled it off without getting barred at so many places.

[Kat]

If there is only one or two people I can take care of myself but I certainly don't seek out confrontation. Because of this I may seem a little fearless but the toughs can read your size, strength and attitude and usually know better than to mess with me. It is like a dog "smelling" fear (I think it is a mental thing not olfactory. The dogs are either reading body language or your mental state). If you don't have the right attitude you look like an easy target.

You've already reminded us more than twice how tough, strong and physically unbeatable you are. That fact alone makes me wonder if you are really an ex-jockey or a midget with self-worth issues. Otherwise, why on earth would you need to keep boring us with those same egotistical boasts?