accociating in casino with non advantage players

**mhb** · 12-05-2013, 08:10 AM

I hope this posting is not too cynical but the issue of associating with non advantage players in casino and betrayal have been issues with me.
I think it is a good idea to associate with non advantage players as it satisfies my social needs and provides a level of cover in the casino that relieves some of the heat.
there may be an ethical question of whether to disclose what I am doing with these associates/acquaintances. although I have information that could be of great help to them I have found that disclosing usually brings betrayal and hardship to me. typically they do not follow through with implementing the knowledge and sometimes they blow my cover by sharing my program with the wrong people or by outright betrayal.

one must be careful with associating with others in the casino, but I would not rule it out altogether.

any comments, criticisms or suggestions.

**Marlene** · 12-05-2013, 08:34 AM

Absolutely terrible idea to out yourself in any way to ploppies. They are there to be entertained and hand their wallet to the casino. You may not like it, but there is nothing you can do about it. They will not understand or appreciate your help and it can only hurt you.

**blackjackomaha** · 12-05-2013, 08:54 AM

The only ploppies I've generally associated myself with are close friends from high school and college. Sometimes, it's nice to play with a few of them at the table. They're all aware of what I do, and despite knowing they play at a disadvantage, they are there purely for entertainment and they're fine with it.

However, I wouldn't open up to someone I met at the tables or see often in a certain casino. Only a few trusted friends that I've known long before I got into AP.

**Blitzkrieg** · 12-05-2013, 09:07 AM

Originally Posted by mhb

I hope this posting is not too cynical but the issue of associating with non advantage players in casino and betrayal have been issues with me.
I think it is a good idea to associate with non advantage players as it satisfies my social needs and provides a level of cover in the casino that relieves some of the heat.
there may be an ethical question of whether to disclose what I am doing with these associates/acquaintances. although I have information that could be of great help to them I have found that disclosing usually brings betrayal and hardship to me. typically they do not follow through with implementing the knowledge and sometimes they blow my cover by sharing my program with the wrong people or by outright betrayal.

one must be careful with associating with others in the casino, but I would not rule it out altogether.

any comments, criticisms or suggestions.

It seems that your just talking to the wrong people bud. The people your talking to at the casino are not dedicated and they are not motivated, and if they are outing you or blowing your cover I would have to question your judgement and decision making skills as an AP.

**Jentho** · 12-05-2013, 09:36 AM

You can't tell other people what you are doing. There is no exception. There is no benefit it can only hurt you and it has. Even if they don't out you they may try to do what you are doing which you absolutely do not want.

**muffdiver** · 12-05-2013, 09:43 AM

Finding the biggest high rolling ploppy in the place and appearing to be a friend of his is very beneficial to you. Casino doesn't want to risk losing the easy money from him.

**DBJT** · 12-05-2013, 10:09 AM

This is a touchy subject, obviously, but IMHO worthy of deeper consideration.

I think it's a given that the VAST majority of non-AP players are un-helpable (is that a word?) and thus un-approachable.

However it's my considered opinion that a fairly large minority, call 'em "advanced ploppies" or "not complete idiots" for lack of any better term, LOL, are playing a solid enough game at some ninety-something-plus percent of correct basic strategy, that they MIGHT be able to benefit from meeting and talking to a more skilled player.

And having such people as your "friends" in the casino... especially if they're high rollers -- can have value to the AP in a variety of ways.

But you CANNOT approach or talk to such people EVER, NEVER NEVER EVER, while INSIDE the casino!

Any discussion -- at all -- about "counting" or "advantage play" or even just "the book" when you are UNDER THE CASINO'S ROOF must be absolutely 100% strictly avoided, no question, no if's and's or but's about it. Period.

But exactly how you might go about solving this dilemma... I leave as an exercise for your homework assignment

-DBJT

**moo321** · 12-05-2013, 10:43 AM

Two different scenarios:

1. People you meet in the casino. Don't EVER tell these people what you're up to. But having friends can be good. I have a couple of ploppy buddies that I see at one of my local stomping grounds. One poor lady has a bad gambling problem, but knowing people makes you look like a regular and not a threat. Also, just having a human being to talk to can be nice.

2. People you know outside the casino that you go to the casino with. I have some buddies that I take trips with, and they know what I'm up to, and that they are NEVER allowed to talk about it in the casino. Going with a group of ploppies can be good, because lots of casinos see counters as solo players. Also, it's just good to have people to talk to, eat with, have a drink with at the end of the day, etc.

Honestly, loneliness is a serious problem in this business. It's one of the reasons I've never gone full-time. In fact, it may be the biggest problem. Having friends helps alleviates this.

**BJNewbeeNoMore** · 12-05-2013, 11:40 AM

Originally Posted by moo321

Two different scenarios:

1. People you meet in the casino. Don't EVER tell these people what you're up to. But having friends can be good. I have a couple of ploppy buddies that I see at one of my local stomping grounds. One poor lady has a bad gambling problem, but knowing people makes you look like a regular and not a threat. Also, just having a human being to talk to can be nice.

2. People you know outside the casino that you go to the casino with. I have some buddies that I take trips with, and they know what I'm up to, and that they are NEVER allowed to talk about it in the casino. Going with a group of ploppies can be good, because lots of casinos see counters as solo players. Also, it's just good to have people to talk to, eat with, have a drink with at the end of the day, etc.

Honestly, loneliness is a serious problem in this business. It's one of the reasons I've never gone full-time. In fact, it may be the biggest problem. Having friends helps alleviates this.

Well said moo.

**DBJT** · 12-05-2013, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by moo321

1. People you meet in the casino. Don't EVER tell these people what you're up to. But having friends can be good. I have a couple of ploppy buddies that I see at one of my local stomping grounds. One poor lady has a bad gambling problem, but knowing people makes you look like a regular and not a threat. Also, just having a human being to talk to can be nice.

2. People you know outside the casino that you go to the casino with. I have some buddies that I take trips with, and they know what I'm up to, and that they are NEVER allowed to talk about it in the casino. Going with a group of ploppies can be good, because lots of casinos see counters as solo players. Also, it's just good to have people to talk to, eat with, have a drink with at the end of the day, etc.

Honestly, loneliness is a serious problem in this business. It's one of the reasons I've never gone full-time. In fact, it may be the biggest problem. Having friends helps alleviates this.

^--- This. Absolutely agree, nailed it.

In fact, as I've said before this is likely one of the main drivers behind my doing what I do now...

New players prolly don't really grok what we mean on this however. Ya gotta be deep IN the game awhile before you really start to sense how much this matters, and the impact it has.

Srsly, casinos are such deceptive places on SO many levels... they appear to be fun and bright and "social" places, at first blush. But it all hides a so-much deeper and so very carefully disguised & cleverly camouflaged reality.

Probably big reason why most truly skilled AP's actually sincerely say they hate casinos, and mean it.

-DBJT

**paymypush** · 12-05-2013, 12:23 PM

If you tell others what you are doing they will no longer want to eat cards when you sit out negative counts.

**Ouchez** · 12-05-2013, 12:28 PM

I have made some great friends at the BJ table--- AP and ploppy, and had some of my best times there. I have also met many AP's at the BASH and that has been very rewarding, all, cept for one,,, great people. I will always have the fondest of memories,,,and Moo and Coyote(often seem with Brittney Spears), are really cool and great guys, as are so many others. I have no regrets.

Ouchez

**mhb** · 12-05-2013, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by moo321

Two different scenarios:

1. People you meet in the casino. Don't EVER tell these people what you're up to. But having friends can be good. I have a couple of ploppy buddies that I see at one of my local stomping grounds. One poor lady has a bad gambling problem, but knowing people makes you look like a regular and not a threat. Also, just having a human being to talk to can be nice.

2. People you know outside the casino that you go to the casino with. I have some buddies that I take trips with, and they know what I'm up to, and that they are NEVER allowed to talk about it in the casino. Going with a group of ploppies can be good, because lots of casinos see counters as solo players. Also, it's just good to have people to talk to, eat with, have a drink with at the end of the day, etc.

Honestly, loneliness is a serious problem in this business. It's one of the reasons I've never gone full-time. In fact, it may be the biggest problem. Having friends helps alleviates this.

yes winning strategies should never be discussed and one should never disclose to anyone else who goes to a casino what one is doing. however, it is a good idea to mingle with ploppies and be seen with them but not ever to disclose to them.
my issue is that I am immobile to a large degree and need help to get to the casino and get around once I am in the casino. I met a lady who goes to casino in a casino who is a care giver. she could be of help to me, but I must never let her know what I am doing with blackjack. this is difficult situation but it is hard to find a helper who goes to casinos. I will need to be somewhat deceptive with her I think. I suppose the answer to this issue is done on a case by case basis, but one must never never disclose, they cannot be trusted.